# Flying Spaghetti Monster Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 15, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265 "2016-04-15T13:27:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/81 "2016-04-17T23:45:57Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Then the law makes no sense. > > If a secular personal preference is deeply felt why should it be treated differently from those derived from a religious point of view? > > Pacifism, vegetarianism…why not Pastafarianism? Then you can write your Congressman and suggest things be changed. But I wouldn’t hold my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/82 "2016-04-18T00:29:37Z")
There is a lot of dispute in the USA as to whether any religion other than one’s own Christian sect should count as a legitimate religion, and as to whether any person outside of one’s own Christian sect is moral enough to be afforded the rights of a true Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cabin_fever_1/32/2908_2.png) [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/83 "2016-04-18T01:10:33Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Who was the, ahem, former-poster who ended every post with “Love You Always :):):)”? The triple smilies give it away - you’re their sock! > ::looks at **Charter** tag:: Correction - you’re their sock who joined _before_ them. > Which can only mean one thing: We’ve broken the space-time continuum! :eek: > > Which can only mean one thing: FSM EXISTS! :):)🙂 Love you too. :):)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cabin_fever_1/32/2908_2.png) [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/84 "2016-04-18T01:29:50Z")
Pardon my hijacking my own OP. I had no idea The Flying Spaghetti Monster was so revered. I chuckled with delight when I read about the news story and your comments. I never met him but obliviously there is great concern as to…whatever… Evidently. I need to research further. In the meantime, I am going to sit back and have a Dewer’s and a Guinness and smile at you all knowingly. Come on over, the FSM is coming by for a toddy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/85 "2016-04-18T03:02:30Z")
> [@](#): > > As a practical matter, there’s a big difference. Religious practices are protected by law. Personal preferences are not. As a practical matter, how do you tell the difference? Neither is founded in fact. And many “religious practices,” such as taking 9 year old wives and torturing animals, have been rejected by law. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/86 "2016-04-18T03:10:24Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > As a practical matter, how do you tell the difference? Neither is founded in fact. And many “religious practices,” such as taking 9 year old wives and torturing animals, have been rejected by law. As a rule, I think it would come down to both a bit of tradition (how long the claimed religion has existed) as well as if similar accommodations for other religions are already in play (church on Sundays, prayer rugs, etc). IOW, if you come in asking for some pretty unique accommodations for a religion that is based on parody or a tv show, but not on one of the more common ‘big names’ - you’re likely to get greater scrutiny then you would if you ask for a ‘christian’ accommodation. Even more so if the things you are asking for will cause a general disruption and are only for “you”. And as far as I know - refusing his accomidations has absolutely no bearing on telling him he can’t believe - but only the judge did not see those beliefs as ‘sincere’. (I say the same thing to my bible thumping idiot of a BIL) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/87 "2016-04-18T22:10:28Z")
So what level of mass delusion is the trigger for acceptability? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/88 "2016-04-19T00:36:55Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Other countries have accepted Pastafarianism to varying degrees as a “real religion” including Russia, Czech Republic, Poland, New Zealand, and the Netherlands… IIRC New Zealand recently became the first country in the world to allow Pastafarian clergy to officiate at weddings. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …For example, every man who enters the New York prison system has a picture taken of his face for identification purposes. Then if they have a beard and/or moustache, we require them to shave it off and we take a picture of their clean shaven face. The reason for this is so we have identification pictures of what they look like with and without facial hair… Out of curiosity inmates who arrive clean shaven required to grow facial hair so you get a picture of what why look like with facial hair? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/89 "2016-04-19T01:12:54Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Then the law makes no sense. > > If a secular personal preference is deeply felt why should it be treated differently from those derived from a religious point of view? Because the First Amendment places religion, by name, into a special category with respect to the government…a place not shared by “secular personal preference.” ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/90 "2016-04-19T01:25:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It would be cool to me, an atheist, to say “to hell with religion” and deny any protection or special treatment of any sort. But, realistically, that just is not something society will accept at this stage in history. Religion is not something many of its adherents feel they have a choice about and it is very deeply rooted in people’s identities. So I concede that some allowances must be made, even if I think the whole premise of any given religion is, frankly, silly. So by all means let Muslim prisoners have their meals after sundown during Ramadan or let Christians take Good Friday off or let Sikhs wear turbans instead of Mountie hats. Whatever. It takes all kinds, after all. > > But to my mind we are clearly way beyond the point of reasonable accommodation when we ascribe the same allowances to something that is not a religion at all, but is a parody of religion, and it is an insult to the intelligence of anyone smarter than a flea to pretend the Flying Spaghetti Monster is anything but a parody. I’m with you up to a point, but I don’t think the above is as certain as you seem to feel. How many Muslim or Christian prisoners conveniently become more devout in prison when they realise it will get them into a strong sub-community that will provide them with protection, or realise it gets them allowances? Is that questioned? Or do the prison authorities just accept what the prisoners say? Do religious people actually stick by their religion when the chips are down? Actually they don’t. **Steve MB** perceptively notes, many of those in prison will be there through breaking their own religious tenets. Religious people do have a choice about their religion and identity, except when it suits them not to. If it isn’t acceptable to question a nominally Muslim or Christian person about the veracity of their beliefs, then it isn’t acceptable to question a pastafarian. Now you say pastafarianism isn’t a religion it’s a parody of a religion. When I read about pastafarianism, it seems to me to be a belief system. A large part of its belief system is that the supernatural aspects, and teachings, of other religions are BS, and that is expressed through parody. The basic definition of “religion” given by Wikipedia is “a cultural system of behaviors and practices, mythologies, world views, sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called “an order of existence”.” Most of this fits pastafarianism. The fact that much of the cultural system or order of existence of pastafarianists comprises a belief that other religions are BS does not disqualify it from being a religion. A book about a book is still a book. A book denying the existence of a book is a book. A book saying all other books are BS is a book. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/91 "2016-04-19T01:26:13Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > IIRC New Zealand recently became the first country in the world to allow Pastafarian clergy to officiate at weddings. > > Out of curiosity inmates who arrive clean shaven required to grow facial hair so you get a picture of what why look like with facial hair? It’s easier to put a beard on a face than to guess what’s under a beard. I knew a couple of guys with beards who shaved at some point. Unrecognizable ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/92 "2016-04-19T03:10:59Z")
If we’re using the legal system to declare religions bogus, I nominate Mormonism. It almost wouldn’t be a religion if it didn’t declare other religions to be BS. That’s practically _de rigueur_. I’m not sure the way FSMianity goes about convincing its followers that other religions are BS, or literary criticism of how it presents to its followers what they should believe, and why, should be relevant to the law. But keep in mind this happened in Nebraska. I mean, you can see the point of the pirate thing. Everybody gets on the same page with this little ritual, and the specifics don’t matter or even make sense, but the point is for people to get together and all play along. You can make friends, and you can have insight into positive social structures. It could be regarded as religion. Maybe it needs a martyr. In any case, I hope it doesn’t advance to the point that they start seizing territory and chopping off heads, vowing to submit all the world to the One True Faith by force, if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/93 "2016-04-19T04:26:48Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Out of curiosity inmates who arrive clean shaven required to grow facial hair so you get a picture of what why look like with facial hair? No, we just put one of [these](http://www.partycity.com/product/hungover+beard.do?navSet=279660) on them. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/94 "2016-04-19T05:22:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Actually we don’t recognize Scientology as a religion in the New York State Correctional System either. What special accommodations do Scientologists ask for? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/95 "2016-04-19T06:17:27Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I’m with you up to a point, but I don’t think the above is as certain as you seem to feel. > > How many Muslim or Christian prisoners conveniently become more devout in prison when they realise it will get them into a strong sub-community that will provide them with protection, or realise it gets them allowances? Probably quite a few of them. I am quite skeptical of when people get Jesus at a most convenient time. However, it remains the fact that Jesus is a thing people really do get, so oh well. The downside of denying the existence of Christianity is greater than the upside of living with it for now. > [@](#): > > Do religious people actually stick by their religion when the chips are down? Actually they don’t. **Steve MB** perceptively notes, many of those in prison will be there through breaking their own religious tenets. To the best of my understanding, few religions claim to make their adherents immune to sin. > [@](#): > > Religious people do have a choice about their religion and identity, except when it suits them not to. I’m sorry but no, that is amazingly obviously not true. A person’s religion is quite often something drilled into them from childhood and thus is not something they ever had a great deal of choice in, and becomes a central part of their identity. Yes, there are Christians of convenience. There are Christians of absolutely solid belief more or less from birth. > [@](#): > > Now you say pastafarianism isn’t a religion it’s a parody of a religion. When I read about pastafarianism, it seems to me to be a belief system. A large part of its belief system is that the supernatural aspects, and teachings, of other religions are BS, and that is expressed through parody. I think calling it a “belief system” is, at least to date, a stretch. It is a joke and a fad that will likely not survive another fifteen years. If it survives the odds and becomes something greater, so be it. (But it won’t because it’s fucking stupid.) > [@](#): > > A book about a book is still a book. A book denying the existence of a book is a book. A book saying all other books are BS is a book. Uh, okay. And “The Hunger Games” is a book. If someone came to me saying they were a Katnissist I’d tell them the joke wasn’t terribly funny or original. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/96 "2016-04-19T07:41:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Because the First Amendment places religion, by name, into a special category with respect to the government…a place not shared by “secular personal preference.” That’s a circular argument. I asked _why_ it should be treated differently and your answer amounts to “because the law says it is different” You aren’t by change a theologian or lawyer are you? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/97 "2016-04-19T15:27:46Z")
It seems wearing a pirate’s costume may harm his case, if that is a basis for his claim of discrimination. Of course, he could be wearing the colander over his head and just be into wearing the costume ( zoot-suit Catholic priests), but then he is out of luck, unless he claims he’s a schismatic. ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/98 "2016-04-19T17:24:41Z")
It’s a revolution I tell ya! :eek: The streets will run red with sauce tonight!! :rolleyes: Pelt them with meatballs! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/99 "2016-04-19T17:43:55Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > IIRC New Zealand recently became the first country in the world to allow Pastafarian clergy to officiate at weddings. Not sure how accurate that statement is. I’m an absolute non-believer in any religion, but I did sign up to be an ordained “Priest” in the church of [Dudeism.](http://dudeism.com/) Which is certainly no more legitimate a religion than Pastafarianism. And I am legally able to officiate weddings in most US states. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265/100 "2016-04-19T17:44:46Z")
> [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](#): > > It’s a revolution I tell ya! :eek: > > The streets will run red with sauce tonight!! :rolleyes: > > Pelt them with meatballs! 😃 Strangle the last pizzaiolo with the tagliatelli of the last pasta chef! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-spaghetti-monster-dead/752265.md?page=6)