# Flying through another nations airspace in a commercial jet **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2008, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-through-another-nations-airspace-in-a-commercial-jet/456656 "2008-07-16T07:04:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-through-another-nations-airspace-in-a-commercial-jet/456656/21 "2008-07-18T13:21:56Z")
[QUOTE=Tripler] I think the “high seas” follows the same concept, except humans can’t naturally abide in space floating around as easily as they can on the water. [/QUOTE] Actually, “high seas” by definition are international waters. In _territorial_ waters, the same concept applies, though. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-through-another-nations-airspace-in-a-commercial-jet/456656/22 "2008-07-18T13:57:55Z")
[QUOTE=Tripler] nations realize that commercial aviation brings commerce, and commerce brings money (either in the form of taxes or an infusion of capital). [/QUOTE] Don’t airlines also have to pay transit fees? I seem to recall reading that a few years back Laos’ single largest source of foreign revenue was airlines paying to fly over it. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-through-another-nations-airspace-in-a-commercial-jet/456656/23 "2008-07-18T14:51:39Z")
[QUOTE=slaphead] Don’t airlines also have to pay transit fees? I seem to recall reading that a few years back Laos’ single largest source of foreign revenue was airlines paying to fly over it. [/QUOTE] Yep. My dad used to fly 747s in the 80s he said they always had to check in when crossing Laos, but that their (the Lao) equipment was ancient and it was like flying into a black hole. For a poor country, all the flights to Bangkok could well be a primary income earner. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-through-another-nations-airspace-in-a-commercial-jet/456656/24 "2008-07-18T16:26:26Z")
[QUOTE=slaphead] Don’t airlines also have to pay transit fees? I seem to recall reading that a few years back Laos’ single largest source of foreign revenue was airlines paying to fly over it. [/QUOTE] Yes, and not only that, but I recently read an article in which it said that United Airlines had updated their route planning software to take that into consideration. In other words, when planning a route from San Francisco to London, the route was planned to take the lowest cost taking into account the old factors of fuel and weather as well as the new factor of the fee to Canada, which is proportional to the length of the of flight path over Canada. This results in a balancing act: Flying over Canada more generally results in a shorter flight, leading to lower fuel costs, but higher fees to Canada. Of course, now that fuel has gotten more expensive, the balance is shifting back to the shorter path, more over Canada. But the point is until just a few years ago, the Canada fee wasn’t even considered. Ed ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-through-another-nations-airspace-in-a-commercial-jet/456656/25 "2008-07-18T17:18:48Z")
[QUOTE=Desert Nomad] I was once on a flight from Bangkok to Frankfurt, when we crossed over a small portion of the then-USSR north of Afghanistan. The crew ordered everyone to close all the window shades for the 20 minutes that we were in Soviet airspace. [/QUOTE] Huh? Unless you had some intermediate stop, I think you’d be over Soviet airspace for a lot more than 20 minutes at that time. Map of the Great Circle route from Bangkok to Frankfurt: > **[Great Circle Mapper](http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?MAP-STYLE=&MARKER-STYLE=default&PATH=BKK-FRA&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-MINIMUM=&PATH-STYLE=&PATH-UNITS=mi&RANGE=&RANGE-COLOR=navy&RANGE-STYLE=best&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts)** > > Displays a map on which the great circle path for one or more > routes is plotted and calculates the distance along each route. Ranges > from one or more locations may also be plotted, along with go/no-go > areas for ETOPS operations at... ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-through-another-nations-airspace-in-a-commercial-jet/456656/26 "2008-07-18T17:24:11Z")
[QUOTE=paperbackwriter] Huh? Unless you had some intermediate stop, I think you’d be over Soviet airspace for a lot more than 20 minutes at that time. Map of the Great Circle route from Bangkok to Frankfurt: > **[Great Circle Mapper](http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?MAP-STYLE=&MARKER-STYLE=default&PATH=BKK-FRA&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-MINIMUM=&PATH-STYLE=&PATH-UNITS=mi&RANGE=&RANGE-COLOR=navy&RANGE-STYLE=best&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts)** > > Displays a map on which the great circle path for one or more > routes is plotted and calculates the distance along each route. Ranges > from one or more locations may also be plotted, along with go/no-go > areas for ETOPS operations at... [/QUOTE] Great circles are the best way to shorten your ground distance, but I think considerations of jet streams, wather, traffic routing, transit fees and politics lead flights to depart from them fairly often. See **suranyi** ’s post. ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-through-another-nations-airspace-in-a-commercial-jet/456656/27 "2008-07-19T02:57:20Z")
Just some more anecdotal info: US flagged-airliners can fly over/through Cuban airspace - they just get a bill from the Cubans for it. They do the same cost/benefit analysis that **suranyi** referred to concerning Canada. I have had to overfly Cuba (unplanned) because we were avoiding weather, and the Cubans simply noted our flight number, when and where we checked in and where we left. Money changes hands and everyone is happy. For military aircraft it is a completely different story. Even flying my trusty C-141 around the world required diplomatic clearances from every country. Most close US allies (the UK, Germany, Japan, Korea) would issue “blanket” diplomatic clearances for each year. They would have one for cargo aircraft, one for fighters, one for tankers, etc. Just put that on the flight plan and you were good to go. For other countries it got MUCH more specific, but this thread is about commercial flights so I’ll stop. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-through-another-nations-airspace-in-a-commercial-jet/456656/28 "2008-07-20T13:54:34Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] By an unarmed recon jet? Because of a collision, I’m guessing… [/QUOTE] 4 engine turboprop- not exactly a jet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-through-another-nations-airspace-in-a-commercial-jet/456656.md?page=1)