# Flying with a flare gun in your guitar case. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 23, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771 "2016-08-23T22:49:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/1 "2016-08-23T22:49:03Z")
Catchy thread title, huh? There have been several reported instances of musicians having their guitars trashed by over-zealous TSA goons forcing the case open and mistreating the instrument. Canadian performer Don Ross is probably the most famous victim of this appalling misfortune, and on his Facebook posting about the incident, one bright spark put forward the idea that when you check your guitar, you should have a flare gun stored in the neck compartment of the case (without any ammo , obviously). Apparently, and I am recounting what was said on the Facebook conversation, if you pack a flare gun (or any firearm, but let’s leave weapons requiring a license out of the equation) and declare it when checking the case, the TSA are by law prevented from opening the case and examining the contents unless the owner is present. Don Ross’ case was forced open by the TSA goons with a wrecking bar or some such implement, without him being present. Now this advice sounds good to me, but I am sure that there are many on the forum who have an in-depth knowledge of airline regulations and TSA protocols who could either confirm or qualify the validity of this procedure. And just to keep the thread on topic … yes, I am well aware that most guitar damage incurred while flying is inflicted by baggage handlers, not by TSA inspections … that is a separate issue, and not what this thread is about. Let’s not get sidetracked into buying a separate seat for the guitar or sweet talking the cabin crew into allowing you to store it in the overhead. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/2 "2016-08-23T22:54:40Z")
I’ve heard the same advice (IIRC it was in relation to camera equipment), though never tested it needless to say. But in the version I heard it was simply that firearms are given much more careful treatment by the TSA, so whatever is alongside it is more likely to reach the other side intact, not that they could not open it except in your presence. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/3 "2016-08-23T22:57:08Z")
I would think a guitar, even in its case, would be small enough to count as carry-on baggage. So why check it, particularly if it’s valuable? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/4 "2016-08-23T23:01:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I would think a guitar, even in its case, would be small enough to count as carry-on baggage. According to this [table of airline carry-on size limits](http://travel-made-simple.com/carry-on-size-chart/), no way does anything like a full-size guitar make it. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/5 "2016-08-23T23:25:34Z")
Also, this is specifically what the OP said they did NOT want to discuss, in the last sentence of their post. –Mark ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/6 "2016-08-23T23:34:31Z")
According to the [TSA’s webpage](https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition) > [@TSA](#): > > You may transport unloaded firearms in a locked hard-sided container as checked baggage only. Declare the firearm and/or ammunition to the airline when checking your bag at the ticket counter. The container must completely secure the firearm from being accessed. Locked cases that can be easily opened are not permitted. > … > Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock. That sounds like they’re not going to open it without you present. ---
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/7 "2016-08-23T23:52:00Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > According to the [TSA’s webpage](https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition) > > That sounds like they’re not going to open it without you present. Thanks, that’s the sort of info I was looking for. Presumably they affix some kind of distinguishing label to the case when you check it, to prevent any over-zealous TSA official from opening it on his own initiative? Sadly, not having a key to the lock is by no means a guarantee that the case won’t be opened. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/8 "2016-08-24T00:07:53Z")
I was just at a gun store a couple weeks ago and saw some hard-sided transport cases with combo locks, but which also had a slot for a TSA key. I’ve also been shopping for luggage locks and most of them now come with either a second TSA code on the combo, or a TSA key slot. Apparently these lock companies have given TSA specific keys in order to open their brands of padlocks without damaging them, and the locks subsequently have a little pop-up indicator that shows when the TSA portion of the lock was used, so you know when it’s been opened and inspected by them. At the same time, Amazon reviews - a lot of them - say the TSA still cuts the locks or otherwise damages cases to get into them, even with the supposed accessible padlock. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/9 "2016-08-24T00:20:37Z")
The TSA keys have been [leaked to the Internet](https://www.wired.com/2015/09/lockpickers-3-d-print-tsa-luggage-keys-leaked-photos/), so there’s no longer any real security in using a TSA lock. –Mark ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/10 "2016-08-24T00:23:53Z")
I’m guessing that if enough people were to find this (possible) loophole, they’d start requiring the owner to open the case so they can do an ‘inspection’ before checking it. Legitimately, it’s not a terrible idea for someone from the airline to visually see that the weapon isn’t loaded and appears to be stored safely, but when I read the OP, my first thought was that you don’t even need a gun, just _say_ you’re checking a gun and the same rules should apply, right? Put your camera gear in a hard case your guitar in a shotgun case with a master lock and declare it as a gun and no one’s the wiser. But, ISTM eventually everyone would just say everything is a gun and they’d want to see it before letting you say that. Also, do airlines charge more to check firearms? Quickly, randomly checking one airline (SW) says they’ll count it as one of your two free pieces of checked luggage. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/11 "2016-08-24T05:57:28Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Also, do airlines charge more to check firearms? > Quickly, randomly checking one airline (SW) says they’ll count it as one of your two free pieces of checked luggage. I always have a checked firearm when I fly domestic. I’ve never experienced any airline charging extra for firearms. If you pack the firearm case inside your regular suitcase the suitcase is considered 1 piece, not 2. If you just check the gun case (like a rifle) it’ll be counted as 1 piece. I have reached my destination and opened my suitcase and found inspection slips inside of it. S:dubious: I call b.s. about the TSA not inspecting bags with firearms in them. There was no indication during those times that the gun case inside was opened. I usually use TSA locks. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > my first thought was that you don’t even need a gun, just _say_ you’re checking a gun and the same rules should apply, right? > . No, because when you declare you have a firearm you have to fill out a declaration card, and lying on that could be tantamount to perjury. And, some airlines have you open the case so they can look at the firearm, and some want the declaration card inside the gun case, some just inside the suitcase on top of the gun case. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/12 "2016-08-24T06:40:59Z")
I had the idea that at the ticket counter, before you lock/seal the case, you had to demonstrate to the person checking the luggage that the firearm was in fact unloaded. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/13 "2016-08-24T08:12:44Z")
When I traveled internationally with guitars (NZ-\>HK-\>UK)as luggage, I stripped the strings off the guitars and popped the back panel off the Fender, so that if customs decided to examine the guitars, they had all the access they needed to look inside. I didn’t have a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/14 "2016-08-24T10:07:17Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I call b.s. about the TSA not inspecting bags with firearms in them. There was no indication during those times that the gun case inside was opened. I usually use TSA locks. > . We are talking guitar cases here … can you fit a TSA lock to a guitar case? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/15 "2016-08-24T10:20:33Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I had the idea that at the ticket counter, before you lock/seal the case, you had to demonstrate to the person checking the luggage that the firearm was in fact unloaded. Every airline has their own standard. I encounter few that do anymore. The only real problem I ever had checking in with a firearm was in San Francisco & United Airlines. The woman checking me in was reading off a checklist on what to do when checking in with a firearm. She got to a part that said “have the passenger open the action and demonstrate the firearm is unloaded”. I removed the [empty] magazine from the pistol and locked the slide back. She started going crazy and screaming “Blaaahhh! What is you doing? What is you doing!!!” Another attendant came over and told her it was fine, that’s what I was supposed to do. The first woman was so upset she had to go sit down. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/16 "2016-08-24T10:31:41Z")
All this time, I thought it was only Lighthouse who had the [broken guitar blues](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6PRqU0sU8I). ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/17 "2016-08-24T10:37:43Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > “have the passenger open the action and demonstrate the firearm is unloaded”. I removed the [empty] magazine from the pistol and locked the slide back. > > She started going crazy and screaming “Blaaahhh! What is you doing? What is you doing!!!” They _say_, “demonstrate that the firearm is unloaded”, but when you point the gun at the most crowded part of the airport and pull the trigger a few times they get pissed off, even though nothing happens. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/18 "2016-08-24T10:38:38Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > All this time, I thought it was only Lighthouse who had the [broken guitar blues](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6PRqU0sU8I). far from it … [United breaks guitars](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/19 "2016-08-24T13:32:03Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > All this time, I thought it was only Lighthouse who had the [broken guitar blues](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6PRqU0sU8I). > [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > far from it … [United breaks guitars](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo) But it all started with Tom Paxton and [Thank You Republic Airlines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwV8ozElNjk) ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771/20 "2016-08-24T14:10:39Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > They _say_, “demonstrate that the firearm is unloaded”, but when you point the gun at the most crowded part of the airport and pull the trigger a few times they get pissed off, even though nothing happens. 🙂 Smiley face or not, for those wondering, this is not how you demonstrate that a firearm is unloaded. You open the action and show that the chamber or chambers are empty and if it has a magazine, that the magazine well is empty. Of course, the agent checking you may not even know what to look for so the value of this exercise isn’t in showing the agent, it’s in making the owner of the firearm do it right before he or she gets on the flight. There is no accidentally forgetting to check at least once that the firearm is unloaded. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/flying-with-a-flare-gun-in-your-guitar-case/763771.md?page=2)