# Focus on the Family veep explains why perforated uteruses are a GOOD thing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 5, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768 "2007-06-05T00:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/1 "2007-06-05T00:18:31Z")
[Because there’s apparently nothing like a few perforated uteruses to discourage women from having abortions](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/03/AR2007060301218.html?hpid=topnews): > [@](#): > > A Focus on the Family spokesman said that Dobson would not comment. But the organization’s vice president, Tom Minnery, said that Dobson rejoiced over the ruling “because we, and most pro-lifers, are sophisticated enough to know we’re not going to win a total victory all at once. We’re going to win piece by piece.” > > Doctors adopted the late-term procedure “out of convenience,” Minnery added. “The old procedure, which is still legal, involves using forceps to pull the baby apart in utero, which means there is greater legal liability and danger of internal bleeding from a perforated uterus. So we firmly believe there will be fewer later-term abortions as a result of this ruling.” Sickening. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/2 "2007-06-05T00:25:42Z")
If only we could return to the good old days where people died by the hundreds of thousands from syphilis and unwed mothers were shunned and often died from illegal abortions performed by amateurs with neither knowledge nor skill and those who did give birth often left the kids in orphanages where they died of disease (Annie Sullivan recalled that the year she and her brother were abandoned at a poorhouse 24 unwanted babies were delivered there and all 24 died) and then became whores who were subject to beatings, drug addiction, and usually died very old very young. THAT would be great because it would really teach people to stop being immoral and having pre and extramarital sex and all, just like it stopped it back then. Fuckers. I guess shooting abortionists is a good thing too because it makes med students reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/3 "2007-06-05T01:02:39Z")
I guess if you think that abortion is murder, then this would make sense. It would be preferable to have a few perforated uteruses instead of more abortions (ie, more murders). I don’t think abortion is murder (which is the premise), so I disagree with the conclusion. But then, most Americans and the US Congress agree. The latter folks are the ones who voted for the law, even though most of them don’t think abortion is murder. Now that I don’t understand. The bill passed by 64-34 in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![SparrowHawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@SparrowHawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SparrowHawk)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/4 "2007-06-05T01:12:21Z")
I think it’s pretty silly of them to think that there will be fewer late-term abortions because of this. After all, apparently a perforated uterus is merely “an inconvenience.” As long as it’s not yours, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/5 "2007-06-05T01:17:04Z")
They seem to be laboring under the delusion that doctors are the ones who make the decision to abort. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/6 "2007-06-05T01:21:45Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] They seem to be laboring under the delusion that doctors are the ones who make the decision to abort. [/QUOTE] Well, of course. If women got the real story (from right-to-lifers, of course), they would know better than to listen to godless doctors. You know they teach atheism in medical school, don’t you? And evolution, too!! ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/7 "2007-06-05T01:23:47Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] But then, most Americans and the US Congress agree. The latter folks are the ones who voted for the law, even though most of them don’t think abortion is murder. Now that I don’t understand. The bill passed by 64-34 in the Senate. [/QUOTE] Because they’re a bunch of chickenshit cowards who’re more worried about being reelected than anything else. They’re afraid that if they were to vote against it, the religious right would mobilize and get them voted out of office. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/8 "2007-06-05T01:33:18Z")
I think it’s silly how worked up these people get over the whole issue of late term abortions, like they account for half the abortions known. From a [Fox News article](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html) (i.e. hardly a “liberal media” source) in 2003 dated months before the partial birth abortion ban: > [@](#): > > Of the 1.6 million abortions performed in the U.S. each year, 91 percent are performed during the first trimester (12 or fewer weeks’ gestation); 9 percent are performed in the second trimester (24 or fewer weeks’ gestation); and only about 100 are performed in the third trimester (more than 24 weeks’ gestation), approximately .01 percent of all abortions performed. Most of those 100 (or 0.01 percent) had complicating circumstances- they weren’t just elective. [Dr. David Gunn](http://www.refuseandresist.org/ab/march10/2004/pdf/DavidGunn.pdf), a man I knew and who two good friends worked for, had an almost unheard of history in that he only had one known perforation in the thousands of abortions he had performed before his murder. A part of this was because of some selectivity standards- there were some women he would not perform the procedure on due to higher risk of perforations and other complications (the morbidly obese and ‘later than average’ being the only two I can remember off hand). The main thing he hated in anti-abortion propaganda was the depiction in JUDGMENT HOUSES (those Fundie Halloween haunted house alternatives) and films of a pathetic woman crying and struggling while the abortion staff holds her down- he would not under any circumstances operate on a woman who was crying or who seemed at all uncertain and in fact his counsellors sometimes convinced women _not_ to have the procedure, and the same was true of all of the colleagues he knew. He very much resented this and other flat-out lies, and he once paid for a full page open letter to a particular church who denounced him constantly and sent picketers daily challenging them to sign papers taking legal financial responsibility for the expenses of indigent women they harassed entering his clinic should they convince the woman not to have an abortion. (The church responded with a basic “we didn’t get her pregnant so why should we? We’re trying to stop murder” rebuttal.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/9 "2007-06-05T01:42:45Z")
Criticism of Focus on the Family is an almost unheard of thing in Colorado, but recently things are beginning to change. The Ted Haggard situation was a huge event in the evangelical community (he was essentially exiled), and people are beginning to find their voice. This letter in the Colorado Springs Gazette would never have been written a year ago (or if it had, wouldn’t have been published). > [@](#): > > FOLLOWING CHRIST? > Local evangelicals are not conservatives > > Nine years ago my family and I moved to Colorado Springs after enjoying many years of ministry employment with Dr. Billy Graham’s organization in Minneapolis. We have been gravely disappointed with the feel of the local evangelical community. Rather than joyfully extending a message of “come and see this incredible Jesus,” which is the Graham tone, the local message is, “It’s great you are interested in Jesus, but have you also embraced our three cardinal paranoias — media, government and public education?” To many local evangelicals, everything is a conspiracy, everybody is out to get you and nobody is conservative enough. > > I remember when Graham was preparing for a San Francisco crusade. During a media interview he was asked whether homosexuals would be welcome at his crusade. His heart unfurled, saying, “The gospel is for everyone, everyone is welcome!” How different Graham’s winsome love is, compared to the bunker mentality we experience every day in Colorado Springs. > > Local church leaders love to wrap themselves in the term “conservative.” This is absolutely not true. The correct term is “reactionary.” They react to everything. > > James R. Landis > Colorado Springs ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/10 "2007-06-05T01:44:06Z")
It’s very interesting that you almost never hear of an abstinence only/anti-abortion politician or minister having a teenaged daughter giving birth to an illegitimate child. The official story is that their kids are a whole lot more moral of course, but my guess is that if the 16 year old daughter/granddaughter of a Dobson or a Swaggart or a Helms became pregnant their patriarch or matriarch would have the women’s clinic (in another town) on the phone before you could say “speed dial”. The hypocrisy of these people knows absolutely no bounds. Dr. Gunn, who was not prone to exaggeration, said he had seen at least three of the activists from one of the clinics where he worked (he owned 2 and worked at several others on a circuit basis) at another clinic either for themselves or with a daughter in tow, and _invariably_ they explained the pregnancy was the result of “being raped by a black man”. Why rape in general and implicitly rape by a black man in particular made that babe less deserving to live than those of the women they harassed at other clinics they did not explain. He always gave them the “if I perform the procedure and I ever see you again at any clinic I work at, I assure you I’ll find a way of somehow accidentally letting privileged medical information accidentally leak out” warning and said he never saw them again as picketers. (Perhaps they were too busy forming a posse to chase down that uber-fertile black rapist who preyed on abortion picketers.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/11 "2007-06-05T01:57:30Z")
Maybe for the sake of balance, we could have a gun control advocate step forward and say they’d like to see more school shootings in order to promote more gun control laws. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/12 "2007-06-05T02:46:06Z")
Weren’t folks on this board and elsewhere not too long ago lecturing us on how the now banned procedure wasn’t ever medically necessary, sneering as they parsed the hell out of the term? Seems like now the fiction is over, and the chortling that they’ve forced doctors to use a less safe procedure has begun. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/13 "2007-06-05T02:57:41Z")
The only logical thing for “Focus on the Family” to do is promote early-term abortions, which are safest (and part of the reason abortion is overall so much safer for women than carrying a pregnancy to term). This will mean lobbying for an end to “education” and parental notification roadblocks, and backing laws to prevent harassment of abortion providers and their patients. If “Focus” is so focused on women’s health, it’ll take these steps immediately. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/14 "2007-06-05T03:28:26Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] The official story is that their kids are a whole lot more moral of course, but my guess is that if the 16 year old daughter/granddaughter of a Dobson or a Swaggart or a Helms became pregnant their patriarch or matriarch would have the women’s clinic (in another town) on the phone before you could say “speed dial”. The hypocrisy of these people knows absolutely no bounds. [/QUOTE] I believe that **MsRobyn** posted a link to a webpage a while back that documented stories from abortion providers about anti-choice patients who would actually be handing out pamphlets in the waiting room as they waited for their own procedure, and other atrocious examples of hypocrisy. It was so gratifying to read that I bookmarked it, but alas that computer is now dead and my bookmark is lost. Searching the board for “MsRobyn” and “abortion” turned up nothing, perhaps someone else can have a go at it? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/15 "2007-06-05T06:31:28Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] It’s very interesting that you almost never hear of an abstinence only/anti-abortion politician or minister having a teenaged daughter giving birth to an illegitimate child. The official story is that their kids are a whole lot more moral of course, but my guess is that if the 16 year old daughter/granddaughter of a Dobson or a Swaggart or a Helms became pregnant their patriarch or matriarch would have the women’s clinic (in another town) on the phone before you could say “speed dial”. The hypocrisy of these people knows absolutely no bounds. [/QUOTE] Much as I enjoy making fun of people who are wrongheaded idiots, I think you’re kind of stretching here. It’s a bit unfair to first make an assumption about some group, and then criticize them for being hypocrites because you assume your assumption is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/16 "2007-06-05T07:18:58Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] Much as I enjoy making fun of people who are wrongheaded idiots, I think you’re kind of stretching here. It’s a bit unfair to first make an assumption about some group, and then criticize them for being hypocrites because you assume your assumption is correct. [/QUOTE] This is based on the neverending stream of moral hypocrisies by the same people. I certainly have no data. Anybody see DAILY SHOW tonight incidentally? Only tangentially related, but Flynt’s doing (for no apparent reason) his “$1 million I shagged a Congress-person” challenge again.[Cite](http://news.google.com/news?um=1&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL%2CGGGL%3A2006-38%2CGGGL%3Aen&q=flynt%20million%20sex) . I think it’s pointless, but it’s still fun to watch the moralicrats run for cover and the last time he did it we got rid of Bob Livingston at least. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/17 "2007-06-05T08:19:49Z")
I’m not at all surprised; when push comes to shove, the fundamental core of the “pro-life” movement is misogyny. Hurting and killing women is the **point**. Like Randall Terry, former head of Operation Rescue said, “Every woman who dies is a victory for morality.” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/18 "2007-06-05T08:30:25Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] This is based on the neverending stream of moral hypocrisies by the same people. I certainly have no data. [/QUOTE] Nuther words, you were making shit up based on your own prejudices. _marks card and moves on_ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/19 "2007-06-05T11:51:17Z")
I’m not even sure how many so-called partial birth abortions this bill is going to prevent. Firstly, the ban does not apply to fetuses that are dead (which is a good number of the cases already), and I believe that the doctors can kill the fetus first, if necessary, and then perform the procedure. There’s a thread somewhere in GD or the Pit where we analyzed this whole thing quite thoroughly, it anyone is interested in going back over that. Not that this justifies the law-- it’s a stupid law. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768/20 "2007-06-05T12:04:31Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] I’m not at all surprised; when push comes to shove, the fundamental core of the “pro-life” movement is misogyny. Hurting and killing women is the **point**. Like Randall Terry, former head of Operation Rescue said, “Every woman who dies is a victory for morality.” [/QUOTE] I can’t find that quote on the web. Where did you get it? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/focus-on-the-family-veep-explains-why-perforated-uteruses-are-a-good-thing/406768.md?page=2)