[QUOTE=Sailboat]
Well, you mean, everyone but the people protesting foie gras.
[/QUOTE]
Are you including the City of Chicago in that statement? 'Cause last I knew, we still have a ton of steakhouses, chicken shacks, rib joints and Italian beef stands. No one’s tried to legislate against any of those (nor would they), but they did successfully legislate against fois gras.
I don’t have time to properly respond in this thread, with cites, etc. I wish I did. Tax time, etc. But I can say this: first, I’ve raised veal calves many times and know many others who still do, and none of us ever kept them in crates in the dark. Maybe people do somewhere, but I’ve never seen it personally.
Many dairy cattle do not graze on pasture, but are kept indoors. Not all, but many. In some US states it is legal to feed milk cows a hormone that increases their milk production. It is not legal anywhere in Canada.
Most of the beef in supermarkets and restaurants is from cattle kept in feedlots. In the USA is is SOP to pump those cattle full of antibiotics and growth stimulating hormones.
If you like beef, seek out a supply of grass-fed, free range beef. It’s out there, it costs a little more, but it’s better and better for you.
Meat chickens are not kept jammed in cages, but laying hens are. Seek out a supplier of free-range eggs, even though ‘free-range’ does not mean the chickens are running around outside, only that they are not squashed into cages where they are so crowded they can’t turn around properly. De-beaking is not really that big an issue, even free-range chickens are generally de-beaked. “Pecking order” is not just a sociological term.
There is no need to for anyone to give up meat, dairy, or eggs. But people ought to educate themselves about where their food comes from and how it is produced.
[QUOTE=vison]
De-beaking is not really that big an issue, even free-range chickens are generally de-beaked. “Pecking order” is not just a sociological term.
[/QUOTE]
Question about de-beaking: how do the chickens eat? Apparently they don’t need their beaks any more than we need our toenails, but whenever I visit the farm, they sure look like they’re using their beaks to pick up seeds and bugs.
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
What is interesting is that in Gascony, where the people there have the highest (or did, last I checked) consumption of foie gras in the known universe, they also have a correspondingly low instance of heart disease.
It must be that “low stress” lifestyle that they live…red wine consumption alone cannot account for this discrepancy.
…
[/QUOTE]
Well, of course they don’t die of heart trouble.
[QUOTE=wiki]
Main industries are :
fishing
stock raising
wine making
brandy distilling
tourism
[/QUOTE]
Gascony people are farmers, fishers, and vineyard workers. They do physical work every day. They exercise for a lliving, whether they like it or not. If you do that all your life, you can get away with more nutritional sins than we couch potatoes can.
Years ago, I listened to my great-aunt talking about previous generations of my mom’s family. I was alarmed to learn that most of them died of heart attacks. Mom’s sister calmed me down by pointing out that they all died in their nineties. They were farmers, and most of them ate meat at every meal. My great-grandfather, I was told, followed that regimen. If there was no meat for breakfast, a hog would be butchered before lunch. They got a daily workout harder than my hardest day at the gym.
I’m really not here to get into a nutrition debate, and I don’t care to put down foie gras. Nothing about foie gras troubles me, because I don’t eat liver. You can wax poetic about its heavenly flavor, and I won’t argue. As I said, bon appetit.
I love pate. I’ve never tried foie gras. Is it really that different?
As far as the birds go, fuck 'em.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
I love pate. I’ve never tried foie gras. Is it really that different?
[/QUOTE]
What kind of pate? If it was pate de foie gras, then yes, it does taste quite a bit like foie gras. I’ve seen really high end pate de foie gras or foie gras mousse that is primarily foie gras, and I almost like that better than 100% foie gras. Plain ol’ chicken liver pate has a less delicate, more liver-y taste.
True story: a year ago when I spent 3 weeks in France, I actually got sick of foie gras. The shit was everywhere, and we really indulged. By the end of the trip, I was ordering anything but the gras on the menu.
[QUOTE=Scumpup]
Overall, I prefer meat that I’ve personally killed. Not only does wild game have more (and better) flavor than the meat from grocery stores, I get pleasure and satisfaction from the hunt and the kill itself. Cruelty, or lack thereof, doesn’t enter into it; though I suppose one could make the case that the deer leads a life free from human-inflicted cruelty right up until the moment I put a bullet through it.
Producing foie gras ducks and geese myself is impractical for many reasons, so I’ve never attempted it. Squeamishness about forcefeeding them or killing them isn’t what stops me, though.
Eating meat means causing pain and death in animals. That is an inescapable fact. It just doesn’t bother most people as long as they don’t have to do the messy parts themselves. Nor should it.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t hunt myself, but I can certainly appreciate your stance. I would hunt but I have small little boys and I wouldn’t feel good about keeping firearms in the house. Plus I have a teenaged stepdaughter that regularly threatens to kill herself or us, so guns are definetely out for now.
I also agree with your take on the flavor of game as opposed to their farm-raised counterparts…it’s all about their diet. Farm-raised deer, fish, etc have a regulated diet whereas their wild counterparts eat…whatever.
It’s better for some meat, like deer and fish, for the wild, but I think that a pig bound for slaughter as Serrano ham or proscioutto di Parma is more flavorful due to it’s acorn diet.
[QUOTE=Athena]
I took a quick look around the web, and there’s various places that produce “happy” veal. When I wrote my post, I was thinking of something I heard on NPR about a week ago that was talking about how the veal industry in general was changing because of consumer demand. Of course, now that I’ve mouthed off about it, I can’t find any cites for it 
If I recall correctly, waaaay back when, veal was simply baby cows, slaughtered early. The US Veal industry wanted to be able to age the cows a little more, so they came up with the whole “don’t let 'em move and feed 'em milk” scheme, which allowed the cows to get older but the meat was still the signature white veal color. Lately, farmers have figured out how to raise them more humanely, with better feed, and still get the same texture and flavor (but not the color).
And another sneaky fact: veal stock is the basis of a LOT of sauces. In most “fine dining” restaurants, it’s everywhere. And I would venture to guess that non-fine dining restaurants use it pretty ubiquitously in frozen sauces and such. So even if you avoid veal, chances are you have it if you ever order soups or anything with sauce on it.
As far as foie gras goes… yes, you would love it. The first time I had foie gras I did it because of pressure, it was at a work party when I was very young and I was NOT a liver eater. I thought it would be really gross. Then I had one bite, and it was the most sublime thing I’d ever put in my mouth.
[/QUOTE]
I think the thing that abhors most PETA types, vegans, veggies, etc is the one inescapable fact that baby anything is generally more tender and flavorful than it’s adult counterpart.
Lamb versus mutton, veal versus beef, baby veggies versus fully grown ones, suckling pigs, etc, etc.
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Are you including the City of Chicago in that statement? 'Cause last I knew, we still have a ton of steakhouses, chicken shacks, rib joints and Italian beef stands. No one’s tried to legislate against any of those (nor would they), but they did successfully legislate against fois gras.
[/QUOTE]
And gastronomes all over the fine dining city that is Chicago are weeping as a result of it. What a load of crap. You now cannot go to Tru, Trotters, Blackbird, anywhere in the city and get foie?
Utter nonsense.
[QUOTE=Athena]
What kind of pate? If it was pate de foie gras, then yes, it does taste quite a bit like foie gras. I’ve seen really high end pate de foie gras or foie gras mousse that is primarily foie gras, and I almost like that better than 100% foie gras. Plain ol’ chicken liver pate has a less delicate, more liver-y taste.
[/QUOTE]
Mostly duck or chicken.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
I love pate. I’ve never tried foie gras. Is it really that different?
As far as the birds go, fuck 'em.
[/QUOTE]
A lot of what is called pate or country pate is usually a blend of pork, chicken or cow’s livers and filler.
Not that it doesn’t taste good, it does (I’m not too fond of aspic, the gelatinous topping on many pates) but it isn’t true foie gras, which is markedly different.
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Question about de-beaking: how do the chickens eat? Apparently they don’t need their beaks any more than we need our toenails, but whenever I visit the farm, they sure look like they’re using their beaks to pick up seeds and bugs.
[/QUOTE]
Their beaks are not removed, only shortened, the pointy bit on the top “lip” is cut back.
[QUOTE=vison]
Their beaks are not removed, only shortened, the pointy bit on the top “lip” is cut back.
[/QUOTE]
And then the beak clippings are ground up into a paste that’s used in women’s cosmetic products, like blush.
[QUOTE=vison]
Their beaks are not removed, only shortened, the pointy bit on the top “lip” is cut back.
[/QUOTE]
Ah, so “de-beaked” is a misnomer. It’s more like “beak trimming” (although I understand, after reading some more on it, that it does require cautery and there are nerves in there, it’s not exactly like trimming your fingernails - more like when your fingernail tears up into the pink part. Not exactly excruciating life-altering pain, but admittedly pain.)