# Fold in half 12 times! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 16, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381 "2005-11-16T20:45:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PhilipM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@PhilipM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhilipM)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/1 "2005-11-16T20:45:46Z")
I didn’t see this here, but thought people may be interested: Britney Gallivan has solved the Paper Folding Problem. This well known challenge was to fold paper in half more than seven or eight times, using paper of any size or shape. [http://pomonahistorical.org/12times.htm](http://pomonahistorical.org/12times.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/2 "2005-11-16T20:48:44Z")
Good for her, I guess. Is there a question? ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/3 "2005-11-16T20:50:57Z")
Looking at the diagram, it seems to take a fairly liberal approach to the definition of “in half”. ---
**Author:** ![PhilipM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@PhilipM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhilipM)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/4 "2005-11-16T20:56:00Z")
no question… statement… got a better forum to put it in? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/5 "2005-11-16T20:56:51Z")
> [@PhilipM](#): > > no question… statement… got a better forum to put it in? MPSIMS? ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/6 "2005-11-16T21:02:12Z")
Yowza! I’d let her fold me in half 27 times! ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/7 "2005-11-16T21:09:44Z")
How about a piece of paper 300’ x 2". Could you fold that in half 8 times and end up with a wad of paper 2" x a little over a foot? ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/8 "2005-11-16T21:11:46Z")
I would guess this is about one of Cecil’s columns… [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a910705.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a910705.html) ---
**Author:** ![PhilipM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@PhilipM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhilipM)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/9 "2005-11-16T21:14:50Z")
RIGHT! I knew I’d seen it somewhere but couldn’t find it immediately and was too lazy to search much. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/10 "2005-11-16T21:42:34Z")
The largest pieces of paper generally available would be the rolls of newsprint that are used for printing newspapers. These weigh around 25 tonnes – there are pictures [here.](http://www.howesoundpp.com/virtualtour/vt01_newsmachine.htm) According to [this page (near the bottom)](http://www.borealforest.org/paper/mill.htm), such pieces of paper are about 65 kilometres in length. Foled in halp 12 times, and the pile would be still be about 16 metres wide. However, one person could not do that folding without the use of mechanical handling equipment, such as a crane capable of lifting around 15 tonnes. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/11 "2005-11-16T21:54:28Z")
I could think about this problem for weeks and never would it occur to me to use math. I’d be using soup spoons, dictionaries, anvils, driving cars over the damn piece of paper…but an _equation?_ Lands sakes. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/12 "2005-11-16T22:14:22Z")
I read the link and saw that she’d applied maths to prove something or other, but how did it help her physically fold the paper? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/13 "2005-11-16T22:18:25Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > I read the link and saw that she’d applied maths to prove something or other, but how did it help her physically fold the paper? She got a bunch of male applied maths students to help her, which wasn’t difficult since they’ll do anything just to get _near_ a girl. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/14 "2005-11-16T22:43:23Z")
> [@Tevildo](#): > > Looking at the diagram, it seems to take a fairly liberal approach to the definition of “in half”. Also a rather liberal definition of ‘fold’ - that’s the big thing about the paper folding problem that most people don’t seem to appreciate; it isn’t just that the object you’re trying to manipulate is steadily getting smaller, it’s that the number of sheets you’re trying to fold is doubling every time - more than seven folds and it isn’t really a ‘fold’ any more, it’s a ‘bend’, at least for the sheets on the outside. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/15 "2005-11-17T00:23:36Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > She got a bunch of male applied maths students to help her, which wasn’t difficult since they’ll do anything just to get _near_ a girl. Yeah, yeah. Mathematics students are all socially inept and easily manipulated. Got any more stereotypes you want to throw around? ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/16 "2005-11-17T00:30:05Z")
> [@PhilipM](#): > > I didn’t see this here, but thought people may be interested: > > Britney Gallivan has solved the Paper Folding Problem. This well known challenge was to fold paper in half more than seven or eight times, using paper of any size or shape. > [http://pomonahistorical.org/12times.htm](http://pomonahistorical.org/12times.htm) A big error on the site (reads like a press release) is that she “was the first person to realize the basic cause for the limits.” This is plainly false. She may be the first person to bother carrying through the calculation, but just because mathematicians haven’t worked out the numbers on a niche problem doesn’t mean they don’t realize the technique that will lead to the answer. She may be able to stretch this into a master’s thesis at a place like Pomona College, but it’s really no more than an exercise nobody had bothered to actually carry out before because there’s nothing to be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/17 "2005-11-17T00:42:42Z")
> [@Mathochist](#): > > Yeah, yeah. Mathematics students are all socially inept and easily manipulated. Got any more stereotypes you want to throw around? Well, there’s the left-handed anabaptists… ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/18 "2005-11-17T02:03:42Z")
> [@Mathochist](#): > > Yeah, yeah. Mathematics students are all socially inept and easily manipulated. Got any more stereotypes you want to throw around? Eh, what do you expect from a Montrealer? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mrrealtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@mrrealtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrrealtime)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/19 "2005-11-17T03:06:37Z")
I am always amazed to see new breakthroughs… This probably has some implications for nanotechnology and building stuff at a molecular level, not to mention folding solar sails…thanks for posting! I’ve ordered her book. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381/20 "2005-11-17T07:44:00Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Eh, what do you expect from a Montrealer? > > 😉 Oh, for crying out Glavin… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fold-in-half-12-times/331381.md?page=2)