# Folding paper in half **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 29, 2007, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040 "2007-04-29T12:56:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/21 "2007-04-30T12:58:26Z")
I did read the links. Sorry, that’s not a fold, that’s a _bend_. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/22 "2007-04-30T13:42:41Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I did read the links. Sorry, that’s not a fold, that’s a _bend_. [/QUOTE] I concur. It seems the truth is being stretched. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/23 "2007-04-30T14:09:46Z")
[QUOTE=Khadaji] Mythbusters included it on one of their shows and they were able to do it with a piece of paper the size of a warehouse. I may recall incorrectly, but I thought the girl did 11 and Mythbusters did 12. [/QUOTE] I didn’t check out what MB did but Britney found a loophole. The tacit condition of the original challenge was that each fold was across the previous fold. This is not a math problem, it’s an engineering problem. Everything depends on the thickness and other qualities of the paper or other material you’re using. BTW once you get up to 12 folds you’ve created 4,096 layers. That sounds somehow familiar. Oh, yeah, here it is. Making [4,096 noodles](http://aguyinnewyork.com/archives/2007/04/noodles.php) by doubling and stretching. IMHO this is more amazing than folding paper. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/24 "2007-04-30T14:12:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I say this is impossible to do anyway, not because of the size of the item you’re working with, but simply because it’s impossible to fold 128 sheets of paper neatly in half all together - the ones on the outside will not be folded, they’ll just be bent around the rest of the bundle. In that case, it’s impossible to fold a piece of paper in half _two_ times. On the second “fold”, the outer layer of paper is just bent around the inner layer, not folded. What (other than the radius of the bend) changes, between the two-folds case and the eight-folds case? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/25 "2007-04-30T14:29:18Z")
Well, if we wanted to be _that_ picky, we could say that a single piece couldn’t be folded for exactly the same reason - the fibres on the outside are being bent around a greater radius than those on the inside. For me though (and YMMV), a fold in paper is a crease - a _tight_ bend that causes the paper to be permanently deformed. ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/26 "2007-04-30T16:30:59Z")
I have the same problem with the Mythbusters method as I do the one that the girl used. They are twisting the myth to make it possible, not what was originally intended. The girl used toilet paper as I recall to break the record. While I give her props for figuring out the math required, she really didn’t disprove the myth. The majority of people that make that statement are talking about a regular sheet of paper. Not a roll of toilet paper, or a sheet of tissue paper several hundred feet square. So yes it’s possible to fold a paper-like product more than 7 times…however it’s not possible to fold a piece of what just about every person would consider paper more than 7 times. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/27 "2007-04-30T16:39:04Z")
[QUOTE=Atrael] I have the same problem with the Mythbusters method as I do the one that the girl used. They are twisting the myth to make it possible, not what was originally intended. The girl used toilet paper as I recall to break the record. While I give her props for figuring out the math required, she really didn’t disprove the myth. The majority of people that make that statement are talking about a regular sheet of paper. Not a roll of toilet paper, or a sheet of tissue paper several hundred feet square. So yes it’s possible to fold a paper-like product more than 7 times…however it’s not possible to fold a piece of what just about every person would consider paper more than 7 times. [/QUOTE] No, that’s not true. She first did it with gold foil and then with paper. The thickness of the paper is accounted for in her formula, so theoretically you could use 20 lb. paper, and her formula will tell you how long (or wide) a piece you need to do it. That stuff in Colophon’s link is sure not toilet paper (although I don’t see how she’s going to get a 12th fold there. In fact, all the pictures I’ve seen are of the 11 fold stage. Does she reserve the 12th fold picture for her book or somethin’?) [cite](http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Folding.html) (scroll down.) ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/28 "2007-04-30T16:40:39Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] I meant to add, earlier, that this question is convincing me yet further that some weird higher power is at work… coincidences seem to be everywhere. It was only about 4 or 5 days ago that I was reading something about the “folding paper in half” myth and followed the link to the woman that had managed 12 folds. Then almost immediately, what do you know, a question about it comes up on here, so I was able to give the link straight away from my IE history. This kind of thing happens so often it is beginning to freak me out – I come across a word, place, or item that I have either never heard of, or not even thought about in years and years, and suddenly it pops up again within a day or two. 🙂 [/QUOTE] _Diegogarcity_, referred to in [this thread](http://ask.metafilter.com/55644/You-probably-discussed-this-question-with-your-friends-yesterday-too) on Metafilter. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/29 "2007-04-30T16:46:15Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] I meant to add, earlier, that this question is convincing me yet further that some weird higher power is at work… coincidences seem to be everywhere. It was only about 4 or 5 days ago that I was reading something about the “folding paper in half” myth and followed the link to the woman that had managed 12 folds. Then almost immediately, what do you know, a question about it comes up on here, so I was able to give the link straight away from my IE history. This kind of thing happens so often it is beginning to freak me out – I come across a word, place, or item that I have either never heard of, or not even thought about in years and years, and suddenly it pops up again within a day or two. 🙂 [/QUOTE] In all honesty this has happened to me pretty much the same way it has to you. I imagine all of us at some time or other have thought about something, forgot it and then Wham! something will occur that make you think that an alien is tapping into your grey matter. If that makes sense :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/30 "2007-04-30T16:56:15Z")
> [@](#): > > The majority of people that make that statement are talking about a regular sheet of paper. Not a roll of toilet paper, or a sheet of tissue paper several hundred feet square. I dunno, most places I’ve encountered the myth (in person or online) explicitly say “it’s impossible to fold a sheet of paper in half 8 times, no matter how big or how thin the paper is”. [cite](http://educ.queensu.ca/~fmc/june2002/PaperFact.htm), [cite](http://madsci.org/posts/archives/dec2001/1008193783.Ph.q.html), [cite](http://discuss.fogcreek.com/techInterview/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=1988) (one of the comments thinks so, at least),[cite](http://www.astoundingsecrets.com/impossible.htm) (not explicitly “any size”, but it says “Not even something as thin as toilet paper, or as large as newspaper”). I haven’t found any statement of the myth that explicitly specifies a normal letter-sized sheet, and very few that don’t include the claim that size doesn’t matter. Incidentally, the Google search I used to find those was “impossible fold paper -britney -straightedge -origami” (without the quotes). The -britney was to exclude all of the (now abundant) articles talking about Britney Gallivan’s achievement, -straightedge was to remove mathematical discussions about trisecting the angle, etc., by folding rather than the traditional compass and straightedge, and -origami eliminated things like “it’s so hard to make a paper crane, it seems almost impossible”. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/31 "2007-04-30T17:05:15Z")
[QUOTE=aldiboronti] _Diegogarcity_, referred to in [this thread](http://ask.metafilter.com/55644/You-probably-discussed-this-question-with-your-friends-yesterday-too) on Metafilter. [/QUOTE] Or the [Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon](http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=417). Neat. Now you can guarantee I’ll be hearing about this all over the place :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/32 "2007-04-30T20:21:34Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] In that case, it’s impossible to fold a piece of paper in half _two_ times. On the second “fold”, the outer layer of paper is just bent around the inner layer, not folded. What (other than the radius of the bend) changes, between the two-folds case and the eight-folds case? [/QUOTE] That’s what I was thinking too. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/33 "2007-04-30T20:32:04Z")
I dont think it is. After like 5 folds you are not longer folding it but rolling it over. If their is no crease it shoudlnt count as a fold ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/34 "2007-04-30T20:37:30Z")
That’s the point exaclty - if it doesn’t get a crease in it, it hasn’t been folded, it has been merely _bent_. Two sheets of paper (per **Chronos** ’ objection) _can_ be folded together, because they can be bent sufficiently flat that they will both show evidence - in the form of a crease - afterwards. 128 sheets of ordinary paper can’t, because not all of them will be folded at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/35 "2007-04-30T21:22:07Z")
I don’t understand why that should be a condition for a fold? A fold is a fold, to take one piece and fold it over the other, who cares how sharp the fold is? it’snot a fold it’s a bend? Wha’? [Fold](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fold) > [@](#): > > 1. to bend (cloth, paper, etc.) over upon itself. > 2. to bring into a compact form by bending and laying parts together (often fol. by up): to fold up a map; to fold one’s legs under oneself. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/36 "2007-04-30T21:57:48Z")
\>I don’t understand why that should be a condition for a fold? Ditto. A “crease” is a sharp fold. You might say, that’s why there’s a separate word for a fold that specifically is sharp, to distinguish it from folds in general, which might be either. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/37 "2007-04-30T22:09:46Z")
[QUOTE=Napier] \>I don’t understand why that should be a condition for a fold? Ditto. A “crease” is a sharp fold. You might say, that’s why there’s a separate word for a fold that specifically is sharp, to distinguish it from folds in general, which might be either. [/QUOTE] It’s not a separate word for something similar, but more or less extreme - it’s a different thing - folding is what the whole piece of paper undergoes, it acquires a _crease_ only in part. But taking your point as it stands, how then do you differentiate _fold_ from _bend_? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/38 "2007-04-30T22:13:19Z")
So, it’s impossible to fold a blanket, then? ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/39 "2007-04-30T22:13:22Z")
You could “fold” a piece of paper in half a hundred times if you wraped it around a needle. That is why i think that their should be a crease in order to be considered a fold. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040/40 "2007-04-30T22:21:00Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] It’s not a separate word for something similar, but more or less extreme - it’s a different thing - folding is what the whole piece of paper undergoes, it acquires a _crease_ only in part. But taking your point as it stands, how then do you differentiate _fold_ from _bend_? [/QUOTE] Well, I like how the girl did it: “For a sheet to be considered folded n times it must be convincingly documented and independently verified that (2n) unique layers are in a straight line.” The sheets lying parallel are evidence of folding - you look in the middle, not at the ends. Merely “bent” would mean that 2n layers are not in a straight line. An L or a V are bent. [QUOTE=ChrisBooth12] You could “fold” a piece of paper in half a hundred times if you wraped it around a needle. That is why i think that their should be a crease in order to be considered a fold. [/QUOTE] I’m not following the “in half” part. If it’s wrapped, it’s not “in half” any amount of times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folding-paper-in-half/402040.md?page=3)