# Folk Hero or Murderer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 31, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228 "2009-05-31T02:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/361 "2009-06-01T20:19:40Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Is this a serious question? Since when does defending yourself or others mean “make sure you have the same weapon” My point is: It doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/362 "2009-06-01T20:21:34Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Pack and a half a day. I couldn’t run away from a guy in a wheelchair :p. > > But like I said, in the end it’s just that I don’t care all that much about it. If I really cared, I could get a stun gun, pepper spray, carry a knife or knuckle dusters or whatever. Even jump through hoops and get a gun license. I just don’t feel the need to. Shit happens. Sometimes you’re lucky and there’s a cop (or, in one memorable case, a band of communist skinheads) to get you out of the pickle. Sometimes you hand over the lunch money. It’s not a huge deal to me. It’s just the background noise of living in the big city. > > And in the end, I guess I always felt pretty safe, even back when I had to take one of the worst subway lines every day, and even during the robberies themselves. I feel like I can trust my “gangstas” to be… well, idiots, OK, but practical idiots who don’t want to risk a murder rap for the hell of it. And I really, truly hope someone doesn’t decide to hurt you one day just for the heck of it. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/363 "2009-06-01T20:23:07Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Yet, he was somehow magically imbued with the ability to chase down an uninjured robber who had a 30 second head start. I must have missed where the details of the chasing down were hashed out. What defines “chasing down” to you? As far as I can tell, he didn’t chase down shit, as the kid got away. He was as effective as the old man next door to me yelling at my kids to stay off of his lawn. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/364 "2009-06-01T20:28:51Z")
I was simply responding to the contradiction in the quote. Ersland went for his Taurus to “go after” the other robber, yet was a disabled war veteran who was physically unable to flee. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/365 "2009-06-01T20:33:49Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I was simply responding to the contradiction in the quote. Ersland went for his Taurus to “go after” the other robber, yet was a disabled war veteran who was physically unable to flee. And you used the term “chasing down” to widen the contradiction as though he ran a 4.4/40 yard dash to get the guy. Yeah, I got it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/366 "2009-06-01T20:34:42Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I must have missed where the details of the chasing down were hashed out. What defines “chasing down” to you? As far as I can tell, he didn’t chase down shit, as the kid got away. He was as effective as the old man next door to me yelling at my kids to stay off of his lawn. While he didn’t chase anyone down he did leave the store to pursue the other robber. Clearly the idea that he couldn’t flee because he’s disabled is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/367 "2009-06-01T20:37:44Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > My point is: It doesn’t. okay. How is that relevant to the discussion? In this case the robbers had a gun and so did the intended victim. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/368 "2009-06-01T20:46:04Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > And you used the term “chasing down” to widen the contradiction as though he ran a 4.4/40 yard dash to get the guy. Yeah, I got it. My apologies for using a tiny bit of hyperbole in making my point. I also suggested that his ability to chase the guy down was due to magical powers. Maybe you could explain to me how magic doesn’t actually work. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/369 "2009-06-01T20:58:37Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > My apologies for using a tiny bit of hyperbole in making my point. I also suggested that his ability to chase the guy down was due to magical powers. Maybe you could explain to me how magic doesn’t actually work. hyperbole is fine on occasion. Was it also hyperbole when you inaccurately described the video a few posts back? ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/370 "2009-06-01T20:59:22Z")
Why do so many people care that a criminal, someone caught on tape threatening another person’s life and livelihood, is dead? “He didn’t have to shoot my baby like that.” Well, you should have taught your ‘baby,’ a sixteen year old, about right and wrong. You should have taught him NOT TO ROB PEOPLE. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/371 "2009-06-01T21:15:42Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > While he didn’t chase anyone down he did leave the store to pursue the other robber. Clearly the idea that he couldn’t flee because he’s disabled is bullshit. Agree, and for the record, I never stated he was unable to flee, only that his reactions to close quarter threats would be restricted. It was the term “chasing down” that got me. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/372 "2009-06-01T21:17:12Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > My apologies for using a tiny bit of hyperbole in making my point. I also suggested that his ability to chase the guy down was due to magical powers. Maybe you could explain to me how magic doesn’t actually work. Like I said, I knew quite well what you were doing. Your hyperbole fell a little flat for me. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/373 "2009-06-01T21:19:15Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I never disagreed with that, Bo. It’s just what Monty was calling vigilanteism seemed to include the first shot as well. How on Earth did you get that from my posts? ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/374 "2009-06-01T21:32:18Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > Why do so many people care that a criminal, someone caught on tape threatening another person’s life and livelihood, is dead? We don’t care that the criminal is dead. We care that Ersland executed him. We care about vigilantism being wrong. These aren’t mutually exclusive propositions. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/375 "2009-06-01T21:40:19Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Agree, and for the record, I never stated he was unable to flee, only that his reactions to close quarter threats would be restricted. It was the term “chasing down” that got me. I get it. Another posted had mentioned his being unable to flee. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/376 "2009-06-01T21:43:25Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Sure, send me a PM and we can work out the details. No need for PM’s…how many matchsticks do you want to stake? I’m a little disappointed that someone would consider making a profit on an event like this, tbh! :dubious: > [@JXJohns](#): > > This isn’t the wild west and anyone who would go looking for trouble with this guy also knows he is armed. One can further bet that he will be _better_ armed after this occasion. It’ll only need him to drop his guard once. > [@JXJohns](#): > > Criminals are cowards and prey on the weak. Except when they aren’t and don’t.( Ever hear of criminals who rob drug-dealers? What about bank-robbers, are they cowards?). Generalise much? > [@JXJohns](#): > > This guy has proven, for right or for wrong, that he has no compunction in defending himself. Or to shoot robbers cold-bloodedly. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/377 "2009-06-01T21:52:52Z")
[QUOTE] > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > No need for PM’s…how many matchsticks do you want to stake? I’m a little disappointed that someone would consider making a profit on an event like this, tbh! :dubious: As disappointed as someone suggesting a bet with odds over such an event? Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/378 "2009-06-01T21:53:03Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > Why do so many people care that a criminal, someone caught on tape threatening another person’s life and livelihood, is dead? Because he should have been sent to prison, not shot in cold blood. > [@Chopper9760](#): > > “He didn’t have to shoot my baby like that.” Well, you should have taught your ‘baby,’ a sixteen year old, about right and wrong. You should have taught him NOT TO ROB PEOPLE. As we know, children always learn what their parents try to teach them. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/379 "2009-06-01T21:59:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Story here](http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7713776). > > IMO, this guy should be found guilty of murder, but given some recent vigilante cases in Texas, where the state’s new(ish, now) Castle law was invoked, I’m not at all confident that things will play out that way. > > FTR, I have no problem with the fact that he shot the guy. It’s going back after the guy isn’t a threat and pumping 5 more rounds into him that bothers me. > > So, Dopers: folk hero or murderer? The guy was down, he was no longer a threat. The shop keeper was no longer in danger, and did not HAVE to shoot him some more. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228/380 "2009-06-01T22:02:42Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > Why do so many people care that a criminal, someone caught on tape threatening another person’s life and livelihood, is dead? I don’t give a shit that the guy is dead. He could have died with the first shot to the head and I would have supported the shopkeeper’s legal defense fund with my hard earned money. The problem is him emptying 5 shots at point blank range into the wounded (possibly unconscious) and prone criminal. This is an execution and I did not see a jury of his peers sentence this man to death. Rule of Law and all that. The guy was not afraid for his life, he turned his back on the robber several times without concern. After exercising his right of self defense, he decided that it was not enough and executed the criminal. Not OK… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folk-hero-or-murderer/498228.md?page=20)