# Folks, gun owners do not have to wear yellow stars in public. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602 "2013-05-17T15:07:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Archaic\_Entity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@Archaic\_Entity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archaic_Entity)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/121 "2013-05-18T00:46:17Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Since it’s your benchmark, if it’s the law it’s ok. So is it against the law to publish names of gun owner licenses? In Indiana, it is now. In Kentucky, it is. But, like he pointed out, we’ve already discussed why we think it’s a bad idea. Do you think it’s a good idea? Or do you just want to do it because it’s legal? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/122 "2013-05-18T00:53:44Z")
> [@Archaic\_Entity](#): > > Sure, which is why they should follow the rules of gun safety. The most important of which is, _don’t have one._ Having a gun makes you less safe. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > What, exactly is the benefit to releasing license-holder names? It tells me who to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/123 "2013-05-18T00:54:04Z")
> [@Archaic\_Entity](#): > > I’m not upset that you know I have a gun, or think I might. You, like I said, seem rational. I don’t have any thoughts that you may decide to take my gun. Perhaps I’m mistaken, the debate I thought we were having is the wisdom of a newspaper publishing the names of licensed gun owners. I’m talking to both you and **Human Action** and sometimes you both retort on replays made to the other. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/124 "2013-05-18T00:57:55Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Why _should_ it be the law? Can you not articulate any benefit at all? No. You said carrying a weapon is your right because it’s the law. The onus is not now on me to defend why it _should_ be the law for newspapers to publish that the fact you have one. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Varies by state. Was it against the law in the state of the newspaper that published it or are you being intentionally obtuse? ---
**Author:** ![Archaic\_Entity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@Archaic\_Entity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archaic_Entity)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/125 "2013-05-18T00:58:41Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Perhaps I’m mistaken, the debate I thought we were having is the wisdom of a newspaper publishing the names of licensed gun owners. > > I’m talking to both you and **Human Action** and sometimes you both retort on replays made to the other. Yes. Okay. Then let me be precise. You (individual) can assume that I am a gun owner and gun carrier. I’m perfectly fine with that. So far, you’ve given thought-out discourse. And, were you (individual) a friend of mine, you would likely find out the truth of your suspicion. I do not want the inclusive you to know what I have, because I don’t inclusively know all of you. You could be a burglar, or you could be a model citizen. When I choose to disclose the information, that is my choice. On my head be it if you decide to use it against me. To have the information disclosed without my consent, I think, is wrong. For the reasons outlined above. So, to reiterate that previous post. I don’t really think you’re (individual) inclined to rob me, based upon the information presented in a newspaper (by the way, it was on website. They overlayed it in a Google Maps sort of style). However, I don’t want to give that information to any and everyone, including people who may be inclined to rob me. ---
**Author:** ![Archaic\_Entity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@Archaic\_Entity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archaic_Entity)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/126 "2013-05-18T01:01:11Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > No. You said carrying a weapon is your right because it’s the law. The onus is not now on me to defend why it _should_ be the law for newspapers to publish that the fact you have one. > > Was it against the law in the state of the newspaper that published it or are you being intentionally obtuse? I know you’re retorting to both of us. But let me clarify on the latter part. My specific example, and feel free to use it to respond to **Human Action**. In Indiana, when the information was displayed, it was legal. People took action and the law was changed. Promptly it was removed. In other states, or cities, the information is publicly available legally. I don’t know of any places where it is available, but illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/127 "2013-05-18T01:07:00Z")
> [@Archaic\_Entity](#): > > Yes. Okay. Then let me be precise. > > You (individual) can assume that I am a gun owner and gun carrier. I’m perfectly fine with that. So far, you’ve given thought-out discourse. And, were you (individual) a friend of mine, you would likely find out the truth of your suspicion. > > I do not want the inclusive you to know what I have, because I don’t inclusively know all of you. You could be a burglar, or you could be a model citizen. > > When I choose to disclose the information, that is my choice. On my head be it if you decide to use it against me. > > To have the information disclosed without my consent, I think, is wrong. For the reasons outlined above. > > So, to reiterate that previous post. I don’t really think you’re (individual) inclined to rob me, based upon the information presented in a newspaper (by the way, it was on website. They overlayed it in a Google Maps sort of style). However, I don’t want to give that information to any and everyone, including people who may be inclined to rob me. Your desire for privacy is noted and understood. Your desire for a sense of security and safety is also understood. On a deep fundamental level I agree with your objective and believe it should be protected and preserved. But I don’t know you. And you are walking around with a gun. Can you see how your desires conflict with my own? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/128 "2013-05-18T01:07:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It tells me who to avoid. Well, at least that’s an answer. I trust you check the names of people you meet against the CCW list? > [@Sitnam](#): > > No. You said carrying a weapon is your right because it’s the law. The onus is not now on me to defend why it _should_ be the law for newspapers to publish that the fact you have one. Very convincing. I hold that there are benefits to issuing CCW permits. Are there benefits to making license holders’ names available to those who inquire? > [@Sitnam](#): > > Was it against the law in the state of the newspaper that published it or are you being intentionally obtuse? The New York one? Seemingly not. Should the government release such information? No. Benefit? None. Detriment? Burglaries. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/129 "2013-05-18T01:11:21Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Well, at least that’s an answer. I trust you check the names of people you meet against the CCW list? I don’t know if doing such a thing is possible here. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/130 "2013-05-18T01:12:10Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Since it’s your benchmark, if it’s the law it’s ok. So is it against the law to publish names of gun owner licenses? It wasn’t against the law in the 1980s to publish the names of AIDS patients. Did that make such actions OK? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/131 "2013-05-18T01:13:37Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Very convincing. I hold that there are benefits to issuing CCW permits. Are there benefits to making license holders’ names available to those who inquire? The New York one? Seemingly not. Should the government release such information? No. Benefit? None. Detriment? Burglaries. Cool story, bro. Start a new thread to discuss that topic. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/132 "2013-05-18T01:14:59Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > It wasn’t against the law in the 1980s to publish the names of AIDS patients. Did that make such actions OK? Did AIDS patients have to apply for a AIDS license? That must have been a hassle. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/133 "2013-05-18T01:16:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t know if doing such a thing is possible here. California, right? It’s a may-issue state, so permits are only issued to those the sheriff decides need one, rather than anyone who meets the requirements, so you can take comfort in that. Breaking news on this front, actually: [California: Concealed Carry Permit Holder Confidentiality Legislation to be Heard Next Tuesday](http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2013/4/california-concealed-carry-permit-holder-confidentiality-legislation-to-be-heard-next-tuesday.aspx) > [@](#): > > Next Tuesday, April 23, the Assembly Judiciary Committee is scheduled to hear an important pro-gun bill. Assembly Bill 134 blocks the release of personal information of concealed carry permit holders through the public records act request law. The 4/23 hearing was cancelled, so the bill is still in committee, it seems. So, as of now, yes, you can request CCW records. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/134 "2013-05-18T01:17:21Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Cool story, bro. Start a new thread to discuss that topic. And here I thought this thread was about publically identifying gun owners. Tell me, what is it about? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/135 "2013-05-18T01:20:06Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > And here I thought this thread was about publically identifying gun owners. Tell me, what is it about? Apparently it changes to whatever ground you feel you can defend. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/136 "2013-05-18T01:23:20Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Apparently it changes to whatever ground you feel you can defend. Hilarity! So, what ground have I ceased defending? All I’ve said is that governments should not make CCW permit holders’ names & addresses public, because it places them at risk for burglary. That risk is balanced against, seemingly, nothing that you can name, and **Der Trihs** ’s desire to know whom to avoid (though he doesn’t do so at this time). ---
**Author:** ![Archaic\_Entity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@Archaic\_Entity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archaic_Entity)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/137 "2013-05-18T01:27:43Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Your desire for privacy is noted and understood. Your desire for a sense of security and safety is also understood. On a deep fundamental level I agree with your objective and believe it should be protected and preserved. > > But I don’t know you. And you are walking around with a gun. > > Can you see how your desires conflict with my own? Honestly, I can’t. If, on a deep fundamental level, you agree with me, then why would you wish to (potentially) deny my right? I, as a person who has gone through the necessary background checks, have the privilege (at this point) to carry in any manner I see fit in my state. I have never harmed anyone by doing so, and you would likely never know if you met me at the supermarket. What does your knowledge of my being armed have to do with your safety? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/138 "2013-05-18T01:28:51Z")
If your thesis is “people shouldn’t own guns”, or “guns should be illegal”, or “states should not have CCW laws”, that’s all well and good. But it has nothing to do with making license holders’ names public, unless you really are of the mind that any sort of petty harassment or increased risk of burglary is justified if the target is the wrong sort of person (evidently, a Nashville resident with masturbatory fantasies of robberies who is deeply insecure and lives in a trailer). ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/139 "2013-05-18T01:40:11Z")
> [@Archaic\_Entity](#): > > Honestly, I can’t. > > If, on a deep fundamental level, you agree with me, then why would you wish to (potentially) deny my right? I, as a person who has gone through the necessary background checks, have the privilege (at this point) to carry in any manner I see fit in my state. I have never harmed anyone by doing so, and you would likely never know if you met me at the supermarket. What does your knowledge of my being armed have to do with your safety? Why would you be worried about your children running around in that supermarket parking lot, all the drivers have had the necessary background checks, passed the tests and have gained the privilege of driving an automobile. I don’t believe your right of a sense of safety supersedes my right of a sense of safety. ---
**Author:** ![Archaic\_Entity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@Archaic\_Entity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archaic_Entity)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602/140 "2013-05-18T01:45:01Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Why would you be worried about your children running around in that supermarket parking lot, all the drivers have had the necessary background checks, passed the tests and have gained the privilege of driving an automobile. > > I don’t believe your right of a sense of safety supersedes my right of a sense of safety. Nor yours mine. But you deign to take away a right of mine, while I do not wish to take away a right of yours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/folks-gun-owners-do-not-have-to-wear-yellow-stars-in-public/658602.md?page=8)