# Following "orders" of police **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827 "2012-03-26T08:31:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/21 "2012-03-26T19:15:32Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I think the OP is wondering if a cop just walks up to him out of the blue and starts ordering him around (“Take you hands out of your pocket and go to my car!”) for no reason, is he legally expected to comply? Yes, absolutely. See [“Terry stop:”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop) an officer can briefly detain you if he has reasonable suspicion that you were, are, or will soon be involved in a crime. His suspicions may later be shown to be incorrect, but even if you _know_ his suspicions to be false, you are not entitled to disobey his orders. Note that the officer hasn’t done anything wrong if his suspicions were reasonable and articulable, even if those suspicions are later shown to be false. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Sorry, I’m very, very annoyed that any policeman can walk up to me, be rude and insulting, and beat the hell out of me if I resist in the slightest of his whims. The officer in the OP’s video was not rude or insulting. He gave simple, clear commands, e.g. “step to the car and take your hands out of your pockets.” He did not “beat the hell” out of the suspect; he used a level of force necessary to obtain compliance while ensuring his own safety after the subject had demonstrated a persistent and irrational refusal to cooperate. Once the subject was on the ground with his hands cuffed, the officer stopped using force. The use of force beyond what is necessary to carry out the job and assure the safety of the officer and bystanders is not allowed, and can land the officer in hot water. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/22 "2012-03-26T20:43:55Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > My simple rule is: if he has a badge and a gun, you’re better off being polite and doing what he says. This, and, especially, try not to make him nervous. In traffic stops, I always sit with my hands on the steering wheel, in very plain sight. When I do go fish in my glove boot for my license and registration (when he asks for them) I tell him what I’m doing. “Okay, just let me open the box here and get them for you…” The last time I was stopped, the officer actually asked me to stop calling him “Sir.” (But he said it with a grin. And he let me off with a warning.) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/23 "2012-03-26T20:52:08Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > In traffic stops, I always sit with my hands on the steering wheel, in very plain sight. When I do go fish in my glove boot for my license and registration (when he asks for them) I tell him what I’m doing. “Okay, just let me open the box here and get them for you…” I did the same last time I was pulled over. I turned my overhead lights on, rolled my window down, planted my hands on the steering wheel and answered “yes” or “no, officer” as appropriate. He thanked me for being considerate enough to turn my lights on and let me go. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/24 "2012-03-26T21:01:54Z")
When I hear someone say “I pay your salary” I give them a quarter. Thats about what they pay in taxes for my yearly salary. If they don’t live here they don’t get the quarter. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/25 "2012-03-26T21:05:01Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > When I hear someone say “I pay your salary” I give them a quarter. Thats about what they pay in taxes for my yearly salary. If they don’t live here they don’t get the quarter. I made $2.00 an hour working at a library when I was a kid and was polite to the clientele. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/26 "2012-03-26T21:06:21Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I think the OP is wondering if a cop just walks up to him out of the blue and starts ordering him around (“Take you hands out of your pocket and go to my car!”) for no reason, is he legally expected to comply? By the utterance of those words, the person is without question then SEIZED under the 4th AM. “The touchstone of the 4th AM is reasonableness”. Once a defacto seizure has taken place, it is always best to comply, even if a person is a Constitutional Law Professor and assumes they did nothing wrong. Until the reason for the seizure is given, it is not known if it is phony or not. ---
**Author:** ![tomcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tomcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomcar)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/27 "2012-03-26T21:27:45Z")
Lovely Choke-Slam. The man is an artist. I think this thread is trolling. If a cop tells you he wants to see your hands, and you don’t show them, he is acting out of self defense. The cop was called to the area because of a disturbance and does not have all day to play this kid’s game. Nobody in their right mind would eqaute this with a cop walking up to a random unsuspicious person walking down the street. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/28 "2012-03-26T21:30:21Z")
Clearly the officer was just making the situation safe. If he had just been out to beat the kid up, he would have taken the opportunity to wipe the road grime off the kids face with his fists when he cracked off about the ID being in his wallet. More background to the take-down from officer Jenkins in [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbrTyP06-yM&feature=youtube_gdata_player). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/29 "2012-03-26T21:39:49Z")
I read the OP and watched the video. I don’t see that the cop did anything wrong or out of the ordinary. In fact, when he told him for the 2nd or 3rd time to take his hands out of his pockets, and the guy put his right hand into\* his pocket, I was surprised that the officer didn’t pull his gun out or take him down immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/30 "2012-03-26T22:33:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > In traffic stops, I always sit with my hands on the steering wheel, in very plain sight. When I do go fish in my glove boot for my license and registration (when he asks for them) I tell him what I’m doing. “Okay, just let me open the box here and get them for you…” When I rode with cops (as auxiliaries, we were armed), for routine traffic stops, the routine was: he went to the driver’s door, and I went to stand just behind the rear door post to keep an eye on what the driver was doing with his right hand, and to make sure there was nobody else lying in the back seat. It also gave me clear line of sight to the glove box when it opened. What most people don’t know is that when you are turned and reaching for that box, the officer’s hand goes to his sidearm. Or at least the smart ones do. By the time you turn back to hand him your registration, he’s Officer Smiley once again. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/31 "2012-03-26T23:04:38Z")
The officer was professional and polite. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/32 "2012-03-27T00:23:43Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > . . . What most people don’t know is that when you are turned and reaching for that box, the officer’s hand goes to his sidearm. Or at least the smart ones do. By the time you turn back to hand him your registration, he’s Officer Smiley once again. I didn’t know that…but it makes perfect sense. That guy is engaged in more risk, in ten seconds, than most of us face in a month. I won’t go quite as far as to say, I’d rather he shot me by mistake than allow me to shoot him – but, to be really honest, I don’t know if I could really blame him, either. (Another thing I learned recently – they should have taught me this in driving training class – is when an officer is conducting a traffic stop, through traffic should merge one lane to the left, to give him more room. Don’t crowd the officer! I was told that they will sometimes ticket for not doing this!) (Disclaimer: told me by a trucker, but don’t have a formal cite.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/33 "2012-03-27T00:52:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I won’t go quite as far as to say, I’d rather he shot me by mistake than allow me to shoot him – but, to be really honest, I don’t know if I could really blame him, either. One would hope they are trained not to shoot people by mistake. I’d much rather someone shoot him than he shoot me by miatake, BTW. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![StephenG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@StephenG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StephenG)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/34 "2012-03-27T01:01:25Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (Another thing I learned recently – they should have taught me this in driving training class – is when an officer is conducting a traffic stop, through traffic should merge one lane to the left, to give him more room. Don’t crowd the officer! I was told that they will sometimes ticket for not doing this!) This is actually law in some jurisdictions – Ontario for one. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/35 "2012-03-27T03:42:24Z")
While the OP is looking for factual information, it calls for opinions. MOved to IMHO from General Questions. **samclem** , MOderator ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/36 "2012-03-27T05:08:20Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > My simple rule is: if he has a badge and a gun, you’re better off being polite and doing what he says. Simple rule #2: If he has a gun, you’re better off being polite and doing what he says even if he doesn’t have a badge. Treat a police stop like a mugging. You don’t want to aggravate the situation because regardless of whether you’re right or wrong, you’re going to lose in a confrontation with somebody who’s got a gun. On the positive side, the cop is less likely to steal your wallet. On the negative side, the police are going to be less interested in hearing your complaint after the fact if it was a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/37 "2012-03-27T06:22:06Z")
Could be worse… Last time I was in Tijuana, the police shook me down for $40. And they had machine-guns! ---
**Author:** ![MannyL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MannyL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MannyL)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/38 "2012-03-27T22:52:48Z")
I’m surprised no one linked to the [additional information provided](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&v=jbrTyP06-yM&src_vid=gU6srWXxTww&annotation_id=annotation_931050) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/39 "2012-03-27T22:54:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Simple rule #2: If he has a gun, you’re better off being polite and doing what he says even if he doesn’t have a badge. > > Treat a police stop like a mugging. You don’t want to aggravate the situation because regardless of whether you’re right or wrong, you’re going to lose in a confrontation with somebody who’s got a gun. On the positive side, the cop is less likely to steal your wallet. On the negative side, the police are going to be less interested in hearing your complaint after the fact if it was a cop. Word. ---
**Author:** ![Sethcrzygy86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Sethcrzygy86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sethcrzygy86)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827/40 "2012-03-28T01:30:46Z")
Why would you argue with someone in authority all for the sake of making a point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/following-orders-of-police/616827.md?page=3)