# Font Battle: Twinings Gunpowder Green Tea **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816 "2012-04-15T03:14:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/21 "2012-04-15T21:08:59Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > Hot type? Interesting. What do you use it for? Well, I print with it. I have a letterpress and so do a number of friends. Someone always needs type. > [@](#): > > It would be hard to argue that Adobe doesn’t care about typographical accuracy (but not impossible to do so.) The same guys that screwed up the size of the point? > [@](#): > > The standard typeface manager on Macs is called Font Book. Of course it’s called that. It manages fonts. Fonts being the files that contain the digital representation of typefaces. I know I’m on the losing end of this battle. I just haven’t given up yet. The distinction is still useful to me (and others in the letterpress community) as I still have so many fonts of metal type. It makes a certain amount of sense to refer to the design separately from the drawers full of metal objects. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/22 "2012-04-15T23:34:36Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > The same guys that screwed up the size of the point? Yeah, and same guys (or company) that released Helvetica Narrow (a digital or photo squeezing of Helvetica) and that sponsored Myriad, the Frutiger clone. However, I don’t mind the redefinition of point. I have the option of using the traditional measurement, but Adobe’s tying it to the inch is all good for my purposes. Even though we should all be using metric. And I’m not buying your rationale for “Font Book.” If it isn’t defining or listing fonts by size, shouldn’t it be called Typeface Book? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/23 "2012-04-15T23:49:27Z")
Doesn’t bother me in the least, whichever they use. [Hijack] Why is called “gunpowder” green tea? My conjecture is that it is because it “explodes” to at least three times its volume as it steeps.[/Hijack] ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/24 "2012-04-16T00:21:20Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Doesn’t bother me in the least, whichever they use. > > [Hijack] Why is called “gunpowder” green tea? My conjecture is that it is because it “explodes” to at least three times its volume as it steeps.[/Hijack] [Wikipedia says:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_tea) > [@](#): > > a form of green Chinese tea produced in Zhejiang Province of China in which each leaf has been rolled into a small round pellet. It is believed to take its English name from the fact that the tea resembles blackpowder grains. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/25 "2012-04-16T00:22:55Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > No offense, but I can’t imagine what that kind of sensitivity would feel like. I’ve encountered designers who are militant about whether you can have serif text with sans headings, or sans text with serif headings, but to be bothered by any mixing whatsoever is very unusual. > > Maybe I could find that tolerable for a single brand or product line, but for everywhere and always…? Hand me the cyanide. :v( Eh, I don’t go around slitting my wrists over it, but when the juxtaposition is as bold and close together as this, it does annoy me. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/26 "2012-04-16T00:58:06Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > And I’m not buying your rationale for “Font Book.” If it isn’t defining or listing fonts by size, shouldn’t it be called Typeface Book? I primarily see Font Book as being a tool for installing, activating, and deactivating font files so you aren’t wasting time dragging files in and out of the /Library folder. It quite literally manipulates fonts. It doesn’t do anything with the typefaces other than show them to you. And I know no one cares but me. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/27 "2012-04-16T02:05:22Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > I primarily see Font Book as being a tool for installing, activating, and deactivating font files so you aren’t wasting time dragging files in and out of the /Library folder. It quite literally manipulates fonts. It doesn’t do anything with the typefaces other than show them to you. And I know no one cares but me. I’m on your side on this one. I personally think whenever real distinctions disappear from the language, the language is poorer. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/28 "2012-04-16T02:17:40Z")
I like the old one better _because_ it’s the old one. It looks correct and familiar. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/29 "2012-04-16T02:45:14Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Old version, simply because I don’t like juxtaposing serif with sans serif – it just looks jarringly wrong to me. [/QUOTE] My first impression was it was a substitution gone wrong - like when someone uses an odd face on a web page and your browser uses Arial. And I thought the old version had no problem with readability either. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/30 "2012-04-16T04:09:09Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > And just because I can’t help myself, neither are fonts, they’re _typefaces_. Thank you; I’m tired of being the only one who points this out. A typeface is what you see. A font is the thing that’s used to produce it. And the old tin is by far superior, not just the type, but the overall design. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/31 "2012-04-16T11:50:59Z")
American here, but have visited England about ten times, starting in early childhood. i I always have associated Gill Sans and variants with being very English (without knowing the phrase “Gill Sans”). I suspect many Americans do. BUT, I never thought of it as “old” or “stuffy”, but rather as continuously hip. Yes, it’s been around for a while, but: 1. When it was first being used back in the 30s, it was ahead of its time – prefigured the whole sans serif boom with Helvetica and all; 2. It’s never been OUT of fashion, from my limited perspective. It shouts “2010s England” just as much as it shouts “1960s England” or “1990s England”. To me, anyway. ETA – I see WhyNot already said this. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/32 "2012-04-16T15:58:30Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > No offense, but I can’t imagine what that kind of sensitivity would feel like. I’ve encountered designers who are militant about whether you can have serif text with sans headings, or sans text with serif headings, but to be bothered by any mixing whatsoever is very unusual. > > Maybe I could find that tolerable for a single brand or product line, but for everywhere and always…? Hand me the cyanide. :v( I’m not any kind of a designer (occasional writer, at best), but it’s a little jarring for me. I suspect the issue isn’t just the issue of serifs, but rather having such obviously unrelated typefaces. It’s the feeling of text from a completely different label accidentally pasted over this one that’s the problem, not any particular detail of the difference. I’m sure someone could come up with an equally mismatched pair of typefaces that are both serif or sans, and that would be just as jarring. It is probably possible, also, though much harder, to come up with a pair of typefaces that do blend, even though one has serifs and the other doesn’t. I’m a little back and forth on the layout of the new one: it’s clearer and easier to read (except the “Twinings” part. Really, you need a contrasting color _and_ bars to make it clear this is the brand?), but there’s a lot to be said for the traditional feel of the old one. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/33 "2012-04-16T17:04:11Z")
The left is more readable, and thus functionally better. The right looks cooler. I’m voting left. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/34 "2012-04-16T17:05:41Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > I’m on your side on this one. I personally think whenever real distinctions disappear from the language, the language is poorer. > [@panache45](#): > > Thank you; I’m tired of being the only one who points this out. A typeface is what you see. A font is the thing that’s used to produce it. Looks like I may have to order t-shirts or bumper stickers or something. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816/35 "2012-04-16T17:20:11Z")
Old, because the black color of the “twinings” in the new one was hard to read. Although that may have just been the picture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/font-battle-twinings-gunpowder-green-tea/618816.md?page=1)