# Food Fadists - STFU **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 23, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037 "2012-06-23T05:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/261 "2012-06-29T04:48:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You know your reactions best. I try as best I’m able to accommodate the needs of my guests. Well, one would have to be a gigantic ass not to. Given sufficient information from the guest (see my post about my friend not telling me about her allergy and we having to abandon my nicely-prepared dinner and go eat out) any sane person should have to make sure that either the food is safe for the guest, or warn them if it is not. It’s the decent thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/262 "2012-06-29T08:57:30Z")
My teeth itch when I eat white bread! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/263 "2012-06-29T10:56:51Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Well, one would have to be a gigantic ass not to. You’d be _surprised_ how many gigantic asses exist in this world. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/264 "2012-06-29T12:23:49Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Since you came up with this new figure to compare, how many hospitalizations are there annually for lightning strikes? You didn’t cite that. Closest I could find was in the same article: > [@](#): > > Only about 10% of people struck by lightning are killed, according to weather service data, while the remaining 90% are left with varying levels of disability. Based on that I’d deduce less than 300 in 2011. But it wasn’t a hard number so I held off posting it. ---
**Author:** ![OtisCampbellWasRight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@OtisCampbellWasRight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtisCampbellWasRight)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/265 "2012-06-29T12:50:58Z")
Yeah, and what about those people who have a problem with eating someone else’s face? Huh? \ ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/266 "2012-06-29T15:49:57Z")
Just back from grocery shopping. The tub of sliced ham I picked up is labeled “Gluten free.” :rolleyes: Yeah, and I bet their carrots are cholesterol free, too. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/267 "2012-06-29T16:16:08Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Just back from grocery shopping. The tub of sliced ham I picked up is labeled “Gluten free.” :rolleyes: All meat is naturally gluten free, of course, but people put all kinds of things on and in it, so I appreciate the labels, and appreciated them even more when I was new at this. Most lunch meat is gluten free, but there are exceptions. Fewer now, but Spartan brands contained gluten up until I stopped looking at their labels. Nathan’s hot dogs used to contain wheat flour, don’t know if they still do. I find gluten in deli chicken lunchmeat quite often, in the seasoning they pump into it or put on the outside. I can’t recall having run into gluten containing ham, but I still read every damn label to be sure. Gluten hides in a lot of places you wouldn’t expect it. Here is KFC’s entire gluten free menu: green beans, corn and three bean salad.[That’s it.](http://www.kfc.com/nutrition/pdf/kfc_allergens_aug10.pdf) Even the mashed potatoes and the grilled chicken without breading has gluten. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/268 "2012-06-29T17:30:22Z")
> [@OtisCampbellWasRight](#): > > Yeah, and what about those people who have a problem with eating someone else’s face? Huh? > > \ SOME PEOPLE ARE ALLERGIC TO FACE YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!!! :mad: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/269 "2012-06-29T17:31:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Do try to not make up shit. [Stats.](http://www.aaaai.org/about-the-aaaai/newsroom/allergy-statistics.aspx) Please take this opportunity to bite me, I didn’t make up jack shit. The [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/09/dining/09alle.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink) says: > [@The New York Times](#): > > The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention put the number of deaths linked to food allergies at 12 in 2004, the most recent year for which data are available. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_strike#Human_injury) was the source of the average lightning deaths. Average, not the lowest on record - which is what you used. But all that’s kind of irrelevant. I have no desire to trade cites and argue whether it’s 10 or 150 peanut deaths in a population of 300,000,000. My point is that the reaction is not only out of proportion to the threat - it is also most likely counterproductive. On the first page, **Alessan** compared my argument to “the anti-vaccine clowns”. That’s straight up ridiculous and exactly backwards. Just like vaccines, exposure will keep the number of allergic reactions [down](http://fooddrugallergy.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=40). Evacuating a bunch of ten year olds just because there is goddamn peanut on the school bus ([cite.](http://thestatsblog.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/bus-evacuated-over-peanut/) Hey, that ones got some numbers for **DSeid** ) is part of the reason we have so many kids allergic to 'em. When we panic about this shit and isolate kids from bacteria and allergens, we increase the number of kids with allergies. It’s called the hygiene hypothesis. I’m not saying we shouldn’t take precautions. School officials should be trained to treat severe allergic reactions. Having epipens on hand would be a great idea. What I am saying is that peanuts are not the fucking boogieman, and maybe the efforts to keep kids away from peanuts at all costs are not very well thought out. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/270 "2012-06-29T17:34:59Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Bottom line: making up shit to preemptively dismiss those with real allergies and real risk of death is just bad form. > > Carry on. You might want to dig a little deeper into the accuracy of those numbers you cite. [Food Allergy Deaths: Less Common Than You Think](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/meredith-broussard/food-allergy-deaths-less_b_151462.html) [One Is Too Many, They Are Always Tragic!](http://www.foodallergy.org/page/death-from-food-allergy) Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/271 "2012-06-29T17:38:19Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Just back from grocery shopping. The tub of sliced ham I picked up is labeled “Gluten free.” :rolleyes: You should probably tuck that :rolleyes: into your pocket for use at a future time - many processed deli meats contain gluten. Most, even. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/272 "2012-06-29T18:49:55Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Please take this opportunity to bite me, I didn’t make up jack shit. The [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/09/dining/09alle.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink) says: > [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_strike#Human_injury) was the source of the average lightning deaths. Average, not the lowest on record - which is what you used. > > But all that’s kind of irrelevant. I have no desire to trade cites and argue whether it’s 10 or 150 peanut deaths in a population of 300,000,000. My point is that the reaction is not only out of proportion to the threat - it is also most likely counterproductive. On the first page, **Alessan** compared my argument to “the anti-vaccine clowns”. That’s straight up ridiculous and exactly backwards. Just like vaccines, exposure will keep the number of allergic reactions [down](http://fooddrugallergy.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=40). Evacuating a bunch of ten year olds just because there is goddamn peanut on the school bus ([cite.](http://thestatsblog.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/bus-evacuated-over-peanut/) Hey, that ones got some numbers for **DSeid** ) is part of the reason we have so many kids allergic to 'em. When we panic about this shit and isolate kids from bacteria and allergens, we increase the number of kids with allergies. It’s called the hygiene hypothesis. > > I’m not saying we shouldn’t take precautions. School officials should be trained to treat severe allergic reactions. Having epipens on hand would be a great idea. What I am saying is that peanuts are not the fucking boogieman, and maybe the efforts to keep kids away from peanuts at all costs are not very well thought out. Okay, then let’s move on and address what you are now stating are your points. I can agree with a bit actually. 1. You are correct that exposure might actually keep food allergy down BUT the exposure in question is _early_ exposure, not exposing kids who are known to be at current risk other than as part of research protocols (more on that later). It is indeed true that the effort to _prevent_ food allergies by trying to delay exposure might be a big backfire as complete avoidance is not possible and small exposures early prime strongly while large early exposures may induce a suppressor response. I’d be happy to discuss that research in depth but it has nothing to do with any effect on kids who are regularly exposed during childhood or with exposing kids who do have documented serious reactions. It does OTOH have everything to do with early feeding practices. I would not recommend avoiding particular foods preemptively and am waiting with bated breath for the results of a longer term prospective study in progress that will potentially prove that early exposure to peanut products early reduce longer term risks. There is zero reason to believe that greater exposure of school kids to peanuts will decrease peanut allergy or the converse. There is some work that very careful controlled exposure to increasingly larger tiny amounts of peanuts may induce a remission in some children, but that is research in a very controlled environment. 2. Accepting the hygeine hypothesis, or any of its more sophisticated variants, does not imply anything about exposing to peanuts. It does suggest that a consequence of having prevented many serious illnesses and chronic parasitic infections has been an increase in allergies and autoimmune diseases. And such may indeed be a factor albeit it is unclear how much of one. 3. Yes, school officials and some parents become needlessly hysterical. Is it not possible however to both recognize those responses as hysterical without being dismissive of those who have well founded and justified concerns? Yes, as you suggest, have the EpiPen at the ready, and allowing those who are at documented real risk of serious reactions (and 9,500 pediatric hospitalizations a year and something like 30,000 Emergency Department visits is enough to take seriously) to be able to attend school without undue fear by virtue of knowing that they are at low risk of being given something with peanut in it without their knowledge, seems like a reasonable response. 4. Thank you for the invitation to bite you but I think I am allergic to monkey. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/273 "2012-06-29T19:56:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > 1. Thank you for the invitation to bite you but I think I am allergic to monkey. Well, if your mama didn’t douse you with hand sanitizer every five minutes, maybe you wouldn’t be. More to the point though, I am not saying that greater exposure to peanuts is going to help a kid who already has an allergy to peanuts. Obviously, that is a bad idea. What I am saying is that the mentality behind the peanut nazis (i.e. don’t let a kid be exposed to anything) is the problem. You are correct in that the time of exposure is most important, but… Would you have evacuated a school bus if you found a peanut? The “peanuts are the boogieman” people and the super-hygiene people _are_ the anti-vaccine brigade. They cause panic among well meaning mothers who then over-react and make sure that there young one’s aren’t exposed to anything. Which then makes the young one’s immune system weak. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/274 "2012-06-29T20:13:01Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Just back from grocery shopping. The tub of sliced ham I picked up is labeled “Gluten free.” :rolleyes: > > Yeah, and I bet their carrots are cholesterol free, too. Peter Pan says on their peanut butter jars, in bold lettering: Contains peanuts. Well, I bloody hope so! That’s why I bought it! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/275 "2012-06-29T20:24:53Z")
**Monkey** , You obviously never met my mama! She was an odd bird to be sure but keeping me excessively clean was _not_ her long list of quirks. Again I think we agree on quite a bit. There is hysteria and fears get magnified as fears often do. No I would not evacuate a school bus. But a more measured response _is_ desirable. The peanut free table, clear labeling, and opportunity to easily avoid contact should be done without any fuss. I just don’t think that complete dismissal of realistic concerns is the best response to those whose fears go overboard. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/276 "2012-06-29T20:42:09Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Monkey** , > > You obviously never met my mama! She was an odd bird to be sure but keeping me excessively clean was _not_ her long list of quirks. > > Again I think we agree on quite a bit. There is hysteria and fears get magnified as fears often do. No I would not evacuate a school bus. But a more measured response _is_ desirable. The peanut free table, clear labeling, and opportunity to easily avoid contact should be done without any fuss. I just don’t think that complete dismissal of realistic concerns is the best response to those whose fears go overboard. The peanut free table is NOT desirable. It gives a false sense of security for the administrators. Train for response - don’t set up a goddamn quarantine. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/277 "2012-06-29T20:58:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You’d be _surprised_ how many gigantic asses exist in this world. That’s only because everyone on the planet is gluten\carb sensitive. It they would eliminate these things from their diets and perhaps schedule some acupuncture sessions they would find that their bodies would find a balance and their asses would not be so big. Personally I am allergic to everything except quinoa that has been harvested during a full moon by vegan lesbian separatists. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/278 "2012-06-29T21:11:10Z")
**Monkey** here we will just have to leave it that we disagree strongly. Preventing an emergent situation in an easy to implement manner is to me always preferable to handling an emergency well. I like the fact that I have a smoke alarm and a fire extinguisher but I’m still not going to store oily rags near the furnace. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/279 "2012-06-29T21:21:54Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > I am too, though I wouldn’t describe any attack I have had as life threatening, scary as shit and really really uncomfortable, but that is just me. I almost always have my inhaler on my person. And in those rare instances where I find myself without it and confronted with circumstances that might provoke an attack, I avoid those circumstances. I don’t complain that the rest of the world should change to accommodate my asthma. The point is even the most careful person will trip up eventually, and I don’t think people looking down at them solves anything. A casual friend came to your house after being at their other friend’s place which is soaking in cat dandur and triggered an attack? Well clearly you are to blame, you shouldn’t allow anyone over to your place! You can see how this quickly just becomes pointless superiority high fiving? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037/280 "2012-06-29T21:25:01Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Monkey** here we will just have to leave it that we disagree strongly. Preventing an emergent situation in an easy to implement manner is to me always preferable to handling an emergency well. I suppose we will. But just know this, I believe that the idea that we can “prevent” allergies is the reason we have seen an increase in allergies. I will not belabor the point, though. I am tired of this subject, myself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-fadists-stfu/626037.md?page=15)