# Food for a Starving World **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 13, 1999, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552 "1999-12-13T19:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 1999, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/41 "1999-12-18T20:31:00Z")
Oh, I’m a clicker, he’s a clicker, she’s a clicker, we’re all clickers, wouldn’t you love to be a clicker too? I went, I saw, I clicked. ## ps- MC- get a life, would ya? Zette Love is like popsicles…you get too much you get too high. Not enough and you’re gonna die… [Click here for some GOOD news for a change](http://www.binghamtonpress.com/binghamtonnews/local/Sanews5.html)[Zettecity](http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/zettecity/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 1999, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/42 "1999-12-19T01:00:00Z")
MC asks: > [@](#): > > Why are starving people starving? Which people? These people are some of them. These are some of the reasons. > [@](#): > > “Starvation will ensue in segments of North Korea before the next harvest unless remedial action is taken urgently,” warns a Special Alert issued 3 June, following a joint FAO/World Food Programme assessment mission to the Asian nation. The mission visited randomly selected areas in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea in late May to assess the food supply situation and review early prospects for 1997 food grain production following **two years of devastating floods.** ([http://www.fao.org/news/global/gw9714-e.htm](http://www.fao.org/news/global/gw9714-e.htm)) > [@](#): > > The people of south Sudan have suffered 15 years of war between troops loyal to the principally Islamic government in Khartoum in the north, and the SPLA `rebels’ of the south. **The current famine is the result of drought and displacement brought about because of the conflict.** ([http://www.caa.org.au/pr/1998/sudan5.html](http://www.caa.org.au/pr/1998/sudan5.html)) > [@](#): > > More than one million people in Central America are struggling to survive as a result of devastating floods and mud slides caused by Hurricane Mitch. > > Hundreds of thousands of people are desperate for food and other relief items in the wake of one of the worst natural disasters to strike the region this Century. Honduras and Nicaragua are the worst affected. **Hurricane Mitch destroyed food supplies and cut off drinking water in almost every part of the two countries.** ([http://www.wfp.org/OP/Countries/sudan/appeal.html](http://www.wfp.org/OP/Countries/sudan/appeal.html)) > [@](#): > > The most severe El Niño of the century occurred in the winter of 1982 and 1983. Disastrous effects and meteorological changes occurred around the world. Total damages were estimated at over $8 billion. > > 1. Australia-Drought and bush fires > 2. Indonesia, Philippines-Crops fail, starvation follows > 3. India, Sri Lanka-Drought,fresh water shortages > 4. Tahiti-6 tropical cyclones > 5. South America-Fish industry devastated > 6. Across the Pacific-Coral reefs die > 7. Colorado River basin-Flooding, mud slides > 8. Gulf states-Downpours cause death, property damage > 9. Peru, Ecuador-Floods, landslides > 10. Southern Africa-Drought, disease, malnutrition ([http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/OCEAN\_PLANET/HTML/oceanography\_el\_nino.html](http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/OCEAN_PLANET/HTML/oceanography_el_nino.html)) (all bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 1999, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/43 "1999-12-19T13:12:00Z")
- - - I tried asking simple questions to demonstrate the reasons that others starve when you do not, and I got name-calling and rude suggestions. And they weren’t even done well: “turkey” is so matronly, “bite me” is rather bland. - - - I haven’t asked for proof that the wpf was _doing_ anything, I asked for proof that they were ever _successful_ at what they were trying to do. - And only quoting “evidence” from their own web site hardly constitutes proof. It’s very unlikely to carry any undesirable info about their activities. If you check the KKK’s site, it says quite plainly that white supremacists are all a swell bunch of folks. - MC ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Sealemon88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon88)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 1999, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/44 "1999-12-19T15:29:00Z")
I think this program can be compared to having a loved one on life support: If there is a chance that her condition will improve in the future, then keeping her alive is a good thing. The UN isn’t perfect, but it sounds like it’s going a fantastic job with this site. Hunger is such a big deal with some of these countries, that its eradication will probably not be accomplished in our lifetimes. The thing is, some of the countries _will_ become self sufficient in the future. The only thing permanent and guarenteed is that once you die, it’s a permanent state. I’ve been clicking on that site every day that I go online, and I will continue to do so. * * * You say “cheesy” like that’s a **BAD** thing. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 1999, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/45 "1999-12-20T06:23:00Z")
I know you’re all thinking the same thing I am… (sigh) * * * **StoryTyler** _Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there._ [C’mon up and see me sometime.](http://sites.netscape.net/storytyler/homepage) ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 1999, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/46 "1999-12-19T19:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The UN isn’t perfect, but it sounds like it’s going a fantastic job with this site. Hunger is such a big deal with some of these countries, that its eradication will probably not be accomplished in our lifetimes. - - - One point is that if you do not address the underlying causes of starvation, the starvation will continue permanently. Interesting that Peru is on wfp’s list; things have drastically improved there in the last few years. The president started killing communist rebels, and lots of other problems changed for the better, strangly enough, at about the same time the rebels got buried. I don’t listen so I don’t know; did NPR report that? Did they support those actions, or condemn them? > [@](#): > > The thing is, some of the countries will become self sufficient in the future. - Sealemon88 - - - What do you mean, “some of the countries”? Why not “all of the countries”? As I read it, Hong Kong didn’t have much of anything except people when it started out; it did quite well until China got to take it over. (China, much larger and with vast natural resources, that nonetheless has it’s own food-supply problems, I note) What exactly do you think it is, that Hong Kong had that unnamed “other countries” don’t? What did Hong Kong have that China doesn’t have? - - Ending starvation would be a great thing, but if you found that all the money you gave to (insert food relief program name here) didn’t have anything to do with it, you’ll feel as if you’ve been cheated out of all the money you donated, because you have. You paid them to do something, and they didn’t really do it. How much failure can “honorable intentions” excuse? The larger the organization, the more of their work is salesmanship- they sold it to the corporate sponsors, and now they’re selling it to you. And it got mentioned on Non-Productive Radio (which engages in their own peculiar brand of salesmanship, inside congress’s hallways). - What charity programs essentially say is, “If you give me $100, I will only keep $9 and I will pass the rest onto someone who needs it.” -that doesn’t sound nearly as noble, does it? Especially after they add “-and I won’t bother with the cure, but I will try to alleviate the symptoms as well as I can.” It’s no wonder they find so many situations where people need help. Colorado River basin? WTF??? One of the highest per-capita income states, in the highest per-capita country, needs international aid? What does the UN do after a Colorado mudslide? Send in people to re-landscape the golf courses and wash-n-wax all the Saabs and Volvos? And if Colorado doesn’t need aid, why did the wfp include it on their list of disasters? - MC ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 1999, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/47 "1999-12-19T21:22:00Z")
1. Only one of the quotes I provided was from wfp, the one about Hurricane Mitch destroying food supplies in Central America. 1a) Is it wrong to send food to a people who have lost much of their food supplies in a natural disaster, such as a hurricane? After all, it doesn’t address the underlying cause. 2. So, we shouldn’t donate money to charities, because they use some of the donations for expenses? Rather, we should fly to foreign countries ourselves and hand out the money, or food, or anything else we wish to donate, directly to the people? 3. I expect wfp doesn’t do anything for people in the Colorado basin. The information on damage caused by El Nino was not taken from a wfp site, and if you’d bothered to take a look at the URL you would have realized that. Should I have omitted the mention of the Colorado basin (and Peru btw, which was also from the same website you’ll notice, **not a wfp website** )? If I had, would you be saying something about “editing the information before posting it”? 4. It did not appear that you were asking if anyone was doing anything, or being successful at it when you said “Why are starving people starving? Which people?”. As you had previously stated “That starvation exists today is due to social or political reasons; it’s not a question of supply and demand.”, one could be led to believe that you wanted information about possible other reasons why people are starving, which you got (Hurricanes, droughts, floods, crop failures) but you’re still not happy. All you can do is attack the information as being biased because you think it’s from a wfp website, or because it includes information about areas that have been affected by natural disasters but don’t need assistance. * * * Your Official Cat Goddess since 10/20/99. “I get along well with everybody.” --I.M.F. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 1999, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/48 "1999-12-19T21:40:00Z")
There’s no point in attempting to correct the underlying causes of hunger if the people have starved to death waiting for that to happen. The ideal circumstance is to provide the emergency aid needed to keep people alive, while long-term projects to correct the problems are developed. It’s a cliche, but a true one, that “if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him to fish you feed him for a lifetime.” This particular site under discussion has as its focus the providing the fish. That doesn’t make it wrong to support it, or ocunter-productive, or any such thing. It just means that IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE you are providing the fish. Other opportunities can and do exist to provide the teaching. Click on. -Melin ---
**Author:** ![Persephone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@Persephone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Persephone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 1999, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/49 "1999-12-19T21:55:00Z")
Okay, I clicked. But why did I click? That seems to be an important question now. I clicked because I just got done shopping for Christmas for my children, and buying food for them as well. I’ve dropped many dollars into the Salvation Army pots this year. I’ve bought gifts & food for the family of seven that my office is sponsoring. My bills are paid. And right now, I’ve got about $100 to last me until I get paid again, which isn’t for another two weeks. Yeah, I’m middle-class. Lower-middle, to be honest. I work, I feed my family, and I help out others when I can. If I’ve got a few extra bucks, I’ll donate it. I’ve got nothing at all against charities using some of my donation to cover an expense, either. Expenses are unavoidable. I clicked because I just don’t have enough money or time right now to do anything else. And I will continue to click until I have means to do more. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 1999, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/50 "1999-12-19T22:48:00Z")
I have no problem with ‘short term’ programmes designed to keep people alive. I have no problem with people visiting **The Hunger Site** ; it’s good to know that there are people who see further than their own lives. However, I also believe that MC made a valid point - that some people, sometimes (and I’m not pointing _any_ fingers here), think that the short term solution is the only one. Too often there are underlying political, economic or social causes that are ignored or swept under the carpet because they’d be bloody difficult to address. The point that I understood MC to be making was that sometimes it’s good to try and see further than the immediate options offered to you. When I’m at work and I’m given a particular project to do, I don’t _just_ do it; I ask why it’s wanted, what it’s trying to address, what gains people want out of it - and then I try to work out whether what I’ve been told to do is the best way to answer the original problem. I know this isn’t the best analogy, and I’m sure someone can find faults with it, but the point remains that the solution offered isn’t always the one that will **solve** the problem (as opposed to just ‘fending it off’). In the end I think Melin said it best - there is a place for short term solutions and a place for long term solutions. You should not see one without the other. I think MC’s skepticism has been stamped on a little too harshly - and in saying that I am _not_ criticising anyone who wants to give (and will not), directly or via **The Hunger Site**. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 1999, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/51 "1999-12-19T22:50:00Z")
Er, let me rephrase that last line… “and in saying that I am not criticising, nor will I in future, anyone who wants to give, either directly or via The Hunger Site.” Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 1999, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/52 "1999-12-20T17:31:00Z")
Up you go… ---
**Author:** ![Frankie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@Frankie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankie)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/53 "1999-12-21T06:00:00Z")
I think something has been lost in this conversation of the efficacy of charities. Just click the effin thing and maybe possibly in some small way help someone else you effin assholes. If 2 grains of rice get to a starving child its all worth it no?? Or MC and others, is it too hard to point your browser there and click the effin thing, on the off chance that someone might get to eat? If so you are the laziest, most selfish, dumbest bastard I’ve ever heard open your mouth! Phew! That feels better! * * * -Frankie I’m not a shrimp, I’m a King Prawn. -Pepe the Prawn ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 1999, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/54 "1999-12-20T22:47:00Z")
To the top, To the top, To the top we go! ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/55 "1999-12-21T06:33:00Z")
- - - Doh! - I am reading just now that Japan has lifted economic sanctions against North Korea. The sanctions were put in place a year ago, after North Korea launched a rocket over Japanese territory. (Korea has been suffering draught and food shortages for about three years now) Japan is the nearest country with surplus food, that could most easily help. There’s a lesson here about the dog biting the hand that feeds it, but if I have to explain it I don’t thnk you’d understand. - Who do you blame for North Koreans starving, at least during the last year? It’s not even really North Koreans starving - it’s North Korean _civilians_ that are taking the brunt of the shortage. There seems to be plenty of food left to keep the soldiers happy. Remember how their government kept warning “how many children would die of starvation”, and not “how many soldiers would die of starvation”? - MC ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/56 "1999-12-21T08:29:00Z")
MC, I’ve been following this thread on and off. From what I’ve seen, you seem to ridicule this effort to feed people because it doesn’t address the root of the hunger problem, in many instances. You are probably correct, it doesn’t address the root of the problem, and that is certainly a point that should be addressed. What I do not understand, however, is WHY does that point make this particular effort less meaningfull, or worthless, or whatever it is, in your estimation? I think most people long for the day when EVERY problem, be it hunger, sickness, war, or whatever, could simply be solved by attacking the root of the problem, and be done with it–not having to worry about “alternative” solutions that alleviate the problem without actually eliminating it. You’re quite naive if you believe that every problem has this direct, achievable solution. Hunger is not an easily solved problem; it’s affected by many things, including government. But why in the hell should you bitch about an effort to feed starving people?? That is what completely escapes me. ---
**Author:** ![Frankie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/258eb7/32.png) [@Frankie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankie)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/57 "1999-12-21T16:42:00Z")
Well said Cabbage… * * * -Frankie I’m not a shrimp, I’m a King Prawn. -Pepe the Prawn ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/58 "1999-12-21T17:52:00Z")
Just DO it, dammit. [www.thehungersite.com](http://www.thehungersite.com) * * * **StoryTyler** “Not everybody does it, but everybody should.” [I Spy Ty.](http://sites.netscape.net/storytyler/homepage) ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/59 "1999-12-21T21:58:00Z")
Back up to the top. I’m a clicker! * * * ~Kyla “You couldn’t fool your mother on the foolingest day of your life if you had an electrified fooling machine.” ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552/60 "1999-12-22T13:29:00Z")
- - - Yea! Send those civilians food! To hell with liberty and freedom! We don’t _have_ to be concerned with toppling backward totalitarian regimes and fringe guerrilla rebels, if we keep the common man in the gutter fed! Here’s to another year of oppression! - MC - - - - - “Isn’t it boss, Buffi? Look! I just saved someone’s life with my little finger!” - - “Yea Candi - with computers, it’s just so _easy_ to save people these days!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-for-a-starving-world/12552.md?page=4)