# Food in the Bible **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032 "2010-03-19T16:53:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/41 "2010-03-22T04:22:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t know for sure, but, from what I’ve read, in the time of Jesus it was baked against the sides of ovens that were heated from the inside with burning dung. Precisely what kind of result (and aromatic influence) that would yield, I don’t really know. Just from my knowledge as a cook, I’ll say that I doubt the results were very pliable. Dry and crispy would be far more likely, but possibly with varying degrees of thickness. Mizrahi matza nowadays is sort and flexible, like pita or naan. I don’t know if it would have been very different back then. ---
**Author:** ![heavyarms553](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/779978/32.png) [@heavyarms553](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heavyarms553)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/42 "2010-03-22T16:39:46Z")
I was under the impression that alcoholic fermentation was originally developed as a way to kill water borne pathogens w/o boiling. Unprocessed water was always a risk, because of all the nasty parasites and bacteria swarming therein. However, boiled water and alcoholic beverages were usually safe to drink. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/43 "2010-03-22T16:51:41Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Mizrahi matza nowadays is sort and flexible, like pita or naan. I don’t know if it would have been very different back then. Come to think of it, I guess communion wafers are soft too, and those are basically maztos. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/44 "2010-03-22T17:03:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yeah, but matzo doesn’t have oil in it. But I thought the rule about Matzo was that it should not be unleavened, yet oil is not leavening. Or is the rule specifically “only flour and water” because of how it’s told in Exodus as grabbing things and leaving? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/45 "2010-03-22T17:33:57Z")
Get a taste for the Bible with some [Ezekiel 4:9 Bread](http://www.foodforlife.com/sprouted-grain-difference/ezekiel-4-9.html) and [Genesis 1:29 Bread](http://www.foodforlife.com/sprouted-grain-difference/genesis-1-29.html). [A contrary view, with sarcasm](http://www.nobeliefs.com/washingtonnews/EzekielBread.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/46 "2010-03-22T18:20:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, but was the ancient flat bread with only flour and water a crispy cracker, or a flexible tortilla? It was probably very similar (or identical) to [taboon bread](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafa), which is still eaten here today. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/47 "2010-03-22T21:23:57Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Doesn’t the addition of oil keep the bread flexible? It helps, but it’s not an absolute requirement. It is quite possible to make soft flat bread (or indeed leavened bread) without any oil - it will just go stale a bit quicker, if not consumed the same day. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/48 "2010-03-22T21:32:21Z")
> [@heavyarms553](#): > > I was under the impression that alcoholic fermentation was originally developed as a way to kill water borne pathogens w/o boiling. Unprocessed water was always a risk, because of all the nasty parasites and bacteria swarming therein. However, boiled water and alcoholic beverages were usually safe to drink. Starting a brew with contaminated components is likely to end in disaster - I don’t expect ancient brewers went to quite the lengths that moderns ones do to sterlilise everything, but if the yeast is only one of a huge and diverse population of micro-organisms in there, it can quite easily be overwhelmed or outcompeted and instead of an alcoholic drink, you get vinegar, or vile-tasting gloop. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/49 "2010-03-26T18:18:09Z")
> [@heavyarms553](#): > > I was under the impression that alcoholic fermentation was originally developed as a way to kill water borne pathogens w/o boiling. Unprocessed water was always a risk, because of all the nasty parasites and bacteria swarming therein. However, boiled water and alcoholic beverages were usually safe to drink. I think people ascribe too many high motives to the ancients. I think it was developed because it got you drunk. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/50 "2010-03-27T12:10:54Z")
A French cookbook I have says that bakeries, farmhouses etc where bread has frequently been made from scratch for many years end up with predominantly the right kind of yeast floating around in the air, so that wild yeasts aren’t causing much of a problem. Maybe it’s the same with breweries (this isn’t much of a cite, I realise). ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/51 "2010-03-27T13:17:39Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > But I thought the rule about Matzo was that it should not be unleavened, yet oil is not leavening. Or is the rule specifically “only flour and water” because of how it’s told in Exodus as grabbing things and leaving? You can add oil to matzo and make it kosher for passover so long as the process from the moment liquid hits flour to the completion of baking is 18 minutes or less. Anything longer makes it chometz and forbidden. For adventurous types who want to try their hand at making their own, the NY Times had an olive oil matzo recipe earlier this week. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/52 "2010-03-27T14:21:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Come to think of it, I guess communion wafers are soft too, and those are basically maztos. They didn’t specifically want to imitate matzos, flatbreads were common around the Mediterranean. Depending on who makes them, some are extremely brittle and some can almost bend completely without breaking. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/53 "2010-03-27T14:58:57Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > A French cookbook I have says that bakeries, farmhouses etc where bread has frequently been made from scratch for many years end up with predominantly the right kind of yeast floating around in the air, so that wild yeasts aren’t causing much of a problem. Maybe it’s the same with breweries (this isn’t much of a cite, I realise). In the case of wine and cider, the yeast you need is usually already present on the skins of the fruit - many modern wine/cider makers add yeast of their chosen variety, just to be sure, but you don’t strictly need to - I learned this when year before last, I got paid in apple juice for a day’s work in an orchard - unless you take steps to prevent it, the juice starts fermenting straight away and will start to taste alcoholic in a week or less. I made two batches (details [here](http://www.atomicshrimp.com/st/content/apple_juice)) - one with added yeast and one on the natural yeast, however, the latter of these did succumb to bacterial contamination. In the case of bread, again, natural yeasts are everywhere and isolating a population suitable for breadmaking is reasonably simple - I tried this too (details [here](http://www.atomicshrimp.com/st/content/wild_yeast)). I’m not sure about beer though - it’s a more explicitly manufactured process than making wine or bread - I think leaving things to chance would probably not work very often, but I’m sure it would be possible to use a piece of an established sourdough starter to kick off a brew (I might have to try this sometime) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/54 "2010-03-27T15:28:35Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > They didn’t specifically want to imitate matzos, flatbreads were common around the Mediterranean. > Depending on who makes them, some are extremely brittle and some can almost bend completely without breaking. I was always interested in this. Could you say again what they are made of (and I am not talking about trans/con ;))? Communion wafers, to be idiotically clear. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/55 "2010-03-27T16:58:57Z")
Communion wafers are made from only flour and water. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/56 "2010-03-27T19:42:15Z")
> [@](#): > > They didn’t specifically want to imitate matzos, flatbreads were common around the Mediterranean. Maybe not directly, but there’s a close family connection. Communion wafers are unleavened because they’re made in imitation of the bread served at the Last Supper, and the Last Supper was a Passover seder, at which unleavened bread is served. Matzo is the particular form of unleavened bread eaten by modern Jews at Passover seders. Either recipe will satisfy either religion’s requirements (bread made with only flour and water, no leavening or other ingredients), and the differences between a Communion wafer and a matzo are basically just out of habit: A Jew could legitimately serve (unconsecrated) wafers at Passover, and a priest could legitimately consecrate matzo as communion. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/57 "2010-03-29T17:41:06Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Since you seem to be referring to the NT foods I would add swine. Being able to have a ham at Easter was adding another major food group IMHO. 😉 Slight hijack: Where, if anywhere, in the New Testament is it actually noted that pork is permissible? Similarly for other non-kosher foods (oysters, catfish… heck I could even eat a _vulture_ if I were so inclined). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/58 "2010-03-29T18:04:19Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Slight hijack: Where, if anywhere, in the New Testament is it actually noted that pork is permissible? Similarly for other non-kosher foods (oysters, catfish… heck I could even eat a _vulture_ if I were so inclined). Pigs aren’t explicitly named in Acts 10, but I think they’d be included in ‘all kinds’: > [@](#): > > 9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” > > 14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” > > 15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” This passage is supposedly an allegory for taking the gospel to the gentiles, or something, but I think a reasonably sound theological argument could be made for it needing to have a more mundane interpretation too, in order for the allegory to be valid. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/59 "2010-03-30T06:17:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Maybe not directly, but there’s a close family connection. Communion wafers are unleavened because they’re made in imitation of the bread served at the Last Supper, and the Last Supper was a Passover seder, at which unleavened bread is served. Matzo is the particular form of unleavened bread eaten by modern Jews at Passover seders. Either recipe will satisfy either religion’s requirements (bread made with only flour and water, no leavening or other ingredients), and the differences between a Communion wafer and a matzo are basically just out of habit: A Jew could legitimately serve (unconsecrated) wafers at Passover, and a priest could legitimately consecrate matzo as communion. Just a need to reiterate here, as was mentioned earlier in the thread: if by “habit” one means 2000 years, where the two I should think are _not_ interchangeable, at least in one direction. It is not that neither communion wafers and matzoh contain leaven; matzoh cannot be left to mix more than 18 minutes before baking, to avoid any chance of rising. I don’t think communion wafers have that requirement–but for Jews it is a “chok”–a type of law, not specifically a commandment, spun off in the Talmud from Torah. (I also don’t know if that law was in play when the Temple stood. Matzoh, and bitter herbs and a live offering to the Temple are the only foods commanded in the Torah to mark the Exodus; all the other symbolic foods are post exile and are from oral law (interpretation)..) If I’m wrong about the hok/mitzvah/Temple thing, correx gladly accepted.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032/60 "2010-03-30T19:53:53Z")
How is this period of 18 minutes recorded in the law? Minutes are a relatively modern unit, and I’m not aware of any ancient time units with that degree of precision. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-in-the-bible/533032.md?page=4)