# Food stamps- should there be restrictions on what you can buy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 3, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335 "2003-06-03T11:02:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/161 "2003-06-08T19:36:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > **I was not on salary(I know the differance). I was hourly. My employer was indeed a crook.** I agree. Why didn’t you report him to the Utah Labor Commission? They even have a handy Wage Claim Form on their website [http://laborcommission.utah.gov/Utah\_Antidiscrimination\_\_\_Labo/Employment\_Standards/Payment\_of\_Wages/payment\_of\_wages.html](http://laborcommission.utah.gov/Utah_Antidiscrimination___Labo/Employment_Standards/Payment_of_Wages/payment_of_wages.html) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/162 "2003-06-08T19:41:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > > * * * > > That’s probably a big part of it. I don’t see how any self-respecting human being could choose to go on welfare. I guess we were just raised according to a different set of values. > \*\* My Bubby(grandmother) was one of 8 children born to immigrants. Through years of hardwork, Bubby went from nothing to owning the corner store. Even then, it was rough and she never had enough money for things like insurance. The store burned down and she lost everything. But, Bubby told herself that she had done it before and she could do it again. She did. She got another store. Bubby once worked for 2 weeks with a broken leg because she felt you don’t bother the doctor unless it’s serious(this didn’t apply to Zeyde or Mom. If they sneezed or had a temperature of 99, Bubby worried), and if you can get out of bed, then you can work. My Mother was a housewife. Then, she started watching some of the neighborhood kids during the day. Then, after alot of thinking and planning, Mom started a daycare center. She owned, ran, and worked there for 15 years. ``` I was raised with one hell of a work ethic. But, I can't work. If I could study my electronics books and get the information to stick, I could probably make a few bucks repairing things for other residents of my apartment complex. If I could think straight, I could give myself a tech support refresher course by reading books at Barnes & Noble, and make some money fixing pc's for the other residents. Hell after all the times my antics in public cause a crowd of children to gather and laugh, I've given serious thought to becoming a professional clown. But most of the time, I'm incapable of simply showering everyday(BTW-If any Dopettes in the area could come by once or twice a week and shower with me, it'd help a lot). I don't have any self respect left. * ``` **KellyM** You have a good point about tap water. The Philly Inquirer, The Philly Weekly, and The Philly City Paper have all run articles showing just how foul our tap water is. Your mention of the military reminds me of something I’ve wondered for a while. Is there a place I can buy MRE’s with foodstamps? They have a very long shelf life, require no refrigeration, don’t need preparation, and are nutritionally complete. I know that they make kosher MRE’s as well. - I recently ran out of Paxil which caused me to experience serious panic attacks, sudden rages, black despair, the inability to control my emotions, flashbacks, and withdrawal symptoms. I’m back on Paxil now. But, the whole thing has resulted in some wallowing in self pity. BUT, by no means am I saying my suffering is especially great. We’ve got Dopers who: were severly beaten and/or molested as children, paraplegic, quadriplegic, etc. Though things are bad for me, I’m well aware that there are plenty of people who have it far worse. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/163 "2003-06-08T21:44:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*Oh, and what about states (like Nevada) that have no sales tax? \*\* Actually, Nevada does have sales tax, but things like soda pop, candy, chips, snack cakes, etc. are considered food and not taxed. So, partial credit. I think that levying a sales tax on junk foods, as most other states do, would go a long way toward solving this state’s financial woes. **jsgoddess** I agree that white rice is basically non-nutritional. I won’t buy it. Brown rice, OTOH, is very good for you. Yeah, it’s more expensive (I don’t understand the logic of having to pay extra for them to not take off the bran and germ), but you can buy it in bulk at many health-food stores quite a bit cheaper than if you get it packaged at the supermarket. Also, have you thought about buying whole grain flour and baking your own bread? It’s actually quite easy to do. Mix the dough, go away and do other things while it rises, then put it in the oven… not a tremendous amount of work involved there. I’ve done it in the past, and may go back to doing it. I’ve never really understood the appeal of white rice and white bread. The whole-grain stuff is so much tastier. But, what was once “poor people food” (unrefined grains and bread) is now considered a specialty item, and companies now charge extra for not refining the food. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/164 "2003-06-08T21:49:08Z")
My dad has a recipe for bread that I think is nothing more than flour and beer-I’ll ask him. It’s delicious. “Poor people food” can often be the tastiest. Heck, New Orleans is famous for their “po’boy” sandwhiches. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/165 "2003-06-08T21:51:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*My dad has a recipe for bread that I think is nothing more than flour and beer-I’ll ask him. It’s delicious. > > \*\* Mmmm, beer bread. Actually, I think there’s yeast involved, too. Either that, or self-rising flour. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/166 "2003-06-08T22:15:34Z")
I got Nevada and Montana confused, I guess. Nevada has no personal income tax. Montana has no sales tax. Neither do Alaska, Delaware, New Hampshire, or Oregon. Beer bread does not generally involve yeast; the beer itself provides the rise. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/167 "2003-06-08T23:55:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMC \* > **Not only do the states vary on what is or isn’t taxable, but there is no such thing as a taxable flag anymore, as a single flag won’t cut it. There are multiple tax flags for each item, as you could technically have an item that is taxable by the state and county, but not by the city. Thus piggybacking on the taxability of an item won’t work very well.** Yes, there are multiple tax tables, but you could still key it off the tax table you use for state tax, as long as the food-stampability is also a state-level decision. \*\* > [@](#): > > Before it gets brought up, even if a state comes up with a master list of all UPCs that are food stamp eligible (we’re talking about hundreds of thousands of items), you have the issue of getting that information into the registers themselves. While some modern stores/chains with IT departments could probably just join the state’s database to the store’s database on the UPC and do the deal (I overly simplified, as there would be conversion issues, but it’s still manageable), there are many stores that still have old systems, where there is a master register in which all changes are made. Trying to set the flags for all of their products would require a huge amount of labor, the cost of which would be picked up by the consumer. There are also a ton of new products introduced on a constant basis, which would need to be evaluated by the state. None of these things are free, nor even cheap. Leaving the program as it is might turn out to be quite a bargain. \*\* I agree that it would be prohibitive to have the state define every UPC. The POS systems will already support flagging an item as food stampable or not. The current rules for food stampability are sufficiently simple that the retailer can enforce them - you don’t need the state to specify all the UPCs. I don’t think it would be possible, though, to define the nutritional value rules sufficiently clearly for the retailer to make the decision. So I agree with **DMC** - the scheme is not workable. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/168 "2003-06-09T01:57:45Z")
Wouldn’t beer use yeast in the brewing process? Maybe that would leaven the bread. StG ---
**Author:** ![frithrah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ad7895/32.png) [@frithrah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frithrah)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/169 "2003-06-09T02:06:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by StGermain \* > \*\*Wouldn’t beer use yeast in the brewing process? Maybe that would leaven the bread. \*\* Only from an unpastierized keg type source. But in normal baking the yeast gives off CO2 that gets trapped by the gluten. A fizzy bottle or can with no active yeast would probably do just fine. You just couldn’t punch it down and wait forever to bake it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/170 "2003-06-09T02:24:14Z")
I asked my father-it’s just beer, self-rising flour and spices. (If anyone wants the recipe, I’ll have my dad try and find it and post it in Cafe Society). Another point against UPC flagging-when I worked in retail, it was almost impossible for them to get all the sale stuff correctly. Do you know how many mistakes those things make? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/171 "2003-06-09T02:37:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMC \* > The problem is in the implementation. Flags, such as food stamp eligible, WIC-eligible, etc., are either UPC specific, or department specific. There is no “Only mark those items which are healthy as food stamp eligible” button. An average grocery store has a database of 15-25 thousand items in it, each uniquely identified only by UPC. As a heavy inventory person I very much understand the complexities of manually flagging items. IF you have the capacity to update your own DB structure its a relatively simple matter to flip those flags since you only have to do it once. If you have portable scanner capability and the ability to create a non-costable/allocatable “virtual location” in your store, you could have a store crew sweep through the store adjusting 1 of each SKU that was ineligible for food stamps into the virtual loc… Create an “update query” that flips food stamp flags off for any matches to items in the “virtual location” At least thats how I would do it with my 9,000 SKU warehouse. > [@](#): > > They already track where you use the cards, which is already more info than I’d like the government to know about my lifestyle. In this case its a good thing. I would tend to think that not allowing cash withdrawls or limiting them to $20 a day or something might be a damn good idea. I very rarely carry cash anymore now…why would a single mom legitimately on welfare need to. Gas for the car, groceries, clothing, money orders for rent, all easily handled via VISA/debit card. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/172 "2003-06-09T03:53:00Z")
Good god man! Is there no limit to how much you want to control somebody elses life just because you can?!? Why would a single mother need to laugh? Why would she need hats that arn’t made out of newspaper? Why does she really need a middle name? Screw it. I’m off to the pit. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/173 "2003-06-09T04:01:19Z")
This is a hijack, but I am adamantly against limiting the ability of recipients to withdraw from their EBT cash accounts. Why? **Because they are charged transaction fees for each transaction by the bank holding the EBT account.** The best way for a recipient to limit the amount of benefit lost to bank fees is to withdraw the entire benefit amount at the beginning of the month and spend it in cash. Most money order brokers will not allow a money order to be drawn against a credit card (doing so is terribly bad business). Even if they do, this forces the recipient to accept the charges not only for the EBT transaction but the money order too. I see no reason why welfare recipients should be forced to pay avoidable transaction charges out of their benefits. If the government wants to give money to banks, they should do it directly, instead of letting them skim it off the top of welfare benefits. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/174 "2003-06-09T04:19:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*This is a hijack, but I am adamantly against limiting the ability of recipients to withdraw from their EBT cash accounts. Why? **Because they are charged transaction fees for each transaction by the bank holding the EBT account.** The best way for a recipient to limit the amount of benefit lost to bank fees is to withdraw the entire benefit amount at the beginning of the month and spend it in cash. Poor selection of banks…mine does not. > [@](#): > > Most money order brokers will not allow a money order to be drawn against a credit card (doing so is terribly bad business). Even if they do, this forces the recipient to accept the charges not only for the EBT transaction but the money order too. Notice I put /debit card. I have purchased a money order this way before, for sending money to a friend. > [@](#): > > I see no reason why welfare recipients should be forced to pay avoidable transaction charges out of their benefits. If the government wants to give money to banks, they should do it directly, instead of letting them skim it off the top of welfare benefits. Then start bitching out your congresspeople for picking a bank that is robbing welfare recipients. Generally direct deposit type arrangments result in fewer fees not more. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/175 "2003-06-09T04:21:13Z")
**drachillix** , my dear… care to join me for a little dance in [the pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=189517) ? It’s nice’n’toasty there. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/176 "2003-06-09T04:44:20Z")
**drachillix** , how much choice in banks do these people get? I chose a bank that doesn’t charge me lots of fees (in fact, in the entire time I’ve had my account I’ve never been charged a fee other than an out-of-network ATM transaction fee, and that’s not charged by my bank). EBT recipients generally have no choice as to what bank they use or the terms of their account. What’s the point of complaining to Congressmen when they don’t choose the bank anyway (that decision is made by a bureaucrat), and besides probably got more in political contributions from the banks in any month than any one of these welfare recipients receives in a year? ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/177 "2003-06-09T05:54:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrotherCadfael \* > \*\*A Modest Proposal: > > Purina should develop People Chow, a pellatized product that contains all nutritional requirements for a human being (perhaps they could make different chows for different age groups – Cycle One, Two, Three and Four). The product should have a bland but not unpleasant taste and come in 50 pound bags. This would make things much easier… \*\* Dole yeast! That would be dole yeast! What SF book was that in? I think it was a series by Larry Niven, the name of which I cannot recall. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/178 "2003-06-09T06:20:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*(There’s a reason cabbage and root vegetables are so common in peasant cuisines!) \*\* The peasants and the rest of the caste underclass thank you for pointing out what we need and how we should live our lives. Your radiance shines down upon us with the glorious wisdom you have learned from the four basic food groups. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/179 "2003-06-09T06:31:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*The peasants and the rest of the caste underclass thank you for pointing out what we need and how we should live our lives. > > Your radiance shines down upon us with the glorious wisdom you have learned from the four basic food groups. > > :rolleyes: \*\* Perish the thought that I speak favorably of avowed Bolshevik \*_Eva Luna_, but she was just pointing out that good and healthy food need not be expensive. People have been poor for a helluva lot longer than welfare existed. Why not use some of the methods, developed over hundreds of years, to help the poor of today? The irony is that what is now often considered ‘gourmet’ (various breads and whatnot), are nothing more than ultra-expensive versions of the same things that peasants had for centuries. You buy a loaf of ‘German Rustic Sourdough’ from Panera for 3 or so bucks. I bought a loaf of ‘kruh’ from the bakery for a couple of dinars. Same difference. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335/180 "2003-06-09T07:48:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*I agree. Why didn’t you report him to the Utah Labor Commission? They even have a handy Wage Claim Form on their website > > [http://laborcommission.utah.gov/Utah\_Antidiscrimination\_\_\_Labo/Employment\_Standards/Payment\_of\_Wages/payment\_of\_wages.html](http://laborcommission.utah.gov/Utah_Antidiscrimination___Labo/Employment_Standards/Payment_of_Wages/payment_of_wages.html) \*\* Well, I couldnt prove it. The owners response would have been “I told him not to work any overtime, and he didn’t”…followed by my job disapearing. In fact, the only real corespondance I had from him (and it was a message on the in-house email system), was just that. You are not to work any overtime. The only documentation of what hours I worked was a hand written time sheet done by the manager at the end of the week. I had a family to support, and I couldnt risk losing that job. Had things been diferant…I might have risked it, and reported him. but I doubt it would have gotten anywhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-stamps-should-there-be-restrictions-on-what-you-can-buy/179335.md?page=10)