# Food terminology v3: Pudding! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572 "2011-06-15T15:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/21 "2011-06-15T23:17:59Z")
I’m certainly aware of the British foodstuffs called pudding, but in my neck of the woods, they don’t count. 😉 (LOVE me some blood pudding, though!) Pudding is, as has been said, a sweet dish thickened with starch. It may also have eggs in it, but it doesn’t rely on eggs for the thickening as custard does. Bread, rice and tapioca puddings are puddings, but always have their modifier in the name. Although, in reality, served a dish of glop or a donut with stuff in the middle, I’m not always sure whether it’s custard or pudding. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/22 "2011-06-15T23:28:02Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > True, but it is a “flavor” in the sense that it’s one of the varieties available, in addition to chocolate, butterscotch, etc., in the pudding aisle at the store. So is [rice](http://www.kraftbrands.com/jello/products/pudding/instant-pudding-and-pie-filling/). Jell-O Tapioca used to also come in three actual flavors until at least the 60s: chocolate, vanilla, and orange-coconut. I can see what you’re trying to say–for whatever reason, tapioca is thought of more as a “flavor” (even though it has little flavor of its own) while “rice” is just a different type of pudding. I suppose this is because the consistency of tapioca pudding is closer to standard pudding than rice pudding is to standard pudding? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/23 "2011-06-16T00:21:06Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > -A Steamed suet dumpling filled/stuffed (or occasionally just suffused) with meat or other savoury items, served as a main course. > > -Certain varieties of sausage, particularly black pudding (a blood sausage), white pudding (chiefly oats and suet), etc. Often having origins as peasant/poverty foods. > I get the impression this might be a word as old as the English language itself. Good impression. > [@OED](#): > > Etymology: Probably \< Anglo-Norman bodeyn, bodinsausage (second half of the 13th cent. or earlier), (in plural) intestines, entrails (1396 in plural bodeyns, with reference to animal intestines; compare Old French, Middle French, French boudinsausage, blood sausage (c1270), (now regional: chiefly Normandy) intestines, entrails, (now slang) belly, stomach (of a person) (1568 or earlier); further etymology uncertain and disputed: see note), with alteration of the ending after nouns in -ing(compare -ing suffix3). Earlier currency of the English word is apparently implied by post-classical Latin pudingum(c1245 apparently in sense ‘sausage’ in a British source; probably \< English) > > 1287 in W. Hudson Leet Jurisdict. Norwich (1892) 8 Omnes illi de Sproxton vendunt hillas et pudinges, emunt scienter porcos superseminatos et vendunt in foro Norwyci predictas hillas et pundinges non necessarias corporibus hominum. > ?a1300 Gloss. Alexander Neckam in T. Wright Vocabularies (1857) 104 Tucetis [glossed] pudingis. > ?a1325 (1300) Land of Cokaygne 59 in W. Heuser Kildare-Gedichte (1904) 146 Þe pinnes beþ fat podinges, Rich met to princez and kinges. > c1400 (1378) Langland Piers Plowman (Laud 581) (1869) B. xiii. 63 He eet many sondry metes, mortrewes and puddynges. > c1450 in T. Austin Two 15th-cent. Cookery-bks. (1888) 42 Puddyng of purpaysse‥putte þis in þe Gutte of þe purpays. > a1475 Liber Cocorum (Sloane) (1862) 48 Take þo neck, avoyde þe bone, And make a puddyng þer of‥þen Sew fast þo bylle grete ende. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/24 "2011-06-16T08:00:41Z")
I should probably clarify - the UK versions… Rice pudding is short grain white ‘pudding’ rice mixed with sugar and milk, then baked - the end result being a something between porridge and risotto in texture (and obviously sweet to taste). Tapioca pudding is the same idea, but made with tapioca pearls - ending up looking like milky frogspawn, and despised of people who grew up being served this as children for school dinners. Semolina pudding likewise - made with coarse semolina and milk, ending up as a variably sloppy sort of doughy stuff. All of these would be served hot, with a big spoonful of raspberry jam, golden syrup or honey. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/25 "2011-06-16T08:02:04Z")
Thanks for the etymology, **samclem** - I’m actually a little ashamed not to have known any of that! ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/26 "2011-06-16T13:10:15Z")
“Pudding” covers a multitude of sins, for me. Basically, a soft, undifferentiated, gelatinous dish - could be main dish or could be a desert - that can be eaten with a spoon. May be hot or chilled. Most often, I think of ‘pudding’ as a daiy-based creamy desert, though I’m fully aware that folks in the UK make some rather odd-sounding (to my ears) main dish puddings. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/27 "2011-06-16T13:47:45Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > A creamy dessert eaten with a spoon. Hawked endlessly by Bill Cosby on TV in the 70’s & 80’s. > Basically [this](http://www.kraftbrands.com/jello/products/pudding/) > [@Chronos](#): > > Unmodified, it’s a specific sort of creamy dairy-based dessert, which usually comes in chocolate, vanilla, butterscotch, or tapioca flavors. There’s also “bread pudding”, “rice pudding”, “plum pudding”, and the like, but none of those would ever be referred to as just “pudding”. And pudding, to an American, _never_ contains meat-- Most Americans, on hearing of “black pudding”, will assume that it’s either dark chocolate, or a D&D monster. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > To my American mind, this is precisely what “pudding” is, although I am well aware that Brits use the word differently. This is my answer too. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/28 "2011-06-16T14:39:01Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Yup. Plus Yorkshires, of course, as mentioned by someone else. Is steak and kidney pudding (not pie) a suet-based dish like you mentioned above? Yes. Here’s my recipe: [http://www.atomicshrimp.com/st/content/steak\_and\_kidney\_pudding/](http://www.atomicshrimp.com/st/content/steak_and_kidney_pudding/) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/29 "2011-06-16T15:28:20Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > For me, a pudding is most definitely NOT custard. A pudding should be starch thickened. A custard is egg thickened. Important difference. I recognize the difference, but not everybody cares. Also, pudding is more generic than custard, which I take to mean egg custard, or a reasonable facsimile, while pudding could be almost anything according to some. Look at the Wiki on pudding, they end up linking to scrapple and polenta as puddings. Sure they start as cornmeal mush, but they don’t end up resembling what I would call pudding. ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/30 "2011-06-16T15:31:52Z")
I grew up in Texas and now live in California. The first thing I think of is Bill Cosby’s stuff - this is “pudding” to me, absent modifiers or context. Rice pudding and tapioca pudding are _usually_ specifically called out, but in common usage (thanks to Jello’s marketing, perhaps) can be lumped in with vanilla, chocolate, butterscotch, and whatever other flavors they have in little cups on the grocery store shelf. Bread pudding is a yummy dessert that restaurants often serve, but it’s very rare to hear it referred to simply as “pudding.” My church growing up served “plum pudding” at their annual advent dinner, but it was basically a raisin cake with yellow sauce on top. It was good, but I believe it was a very inaccurate imitation of the traditional version of the dish. I recently made Spotted Dog (per the recipe in [this book](http://www.wwnorton.com/pob/spottedd/welcome.htm)). The most interesting part was obtaining suet - the local grocery store butcher had one guy on duty who knew what it was, and he proceeded to simply give me some. The resulting concoction was quite good, but based on written descriptions I _think_ it was more dry than it was supposed to be; having no experience for comparison, I’m not certain. I’m eager to try it again. Anyway, this sort of thing certainly comes to _my_ mind now in association with the term “pudding”, but when discussing it with others I have to clarify it somehow or they’ll probably be thinking of Bill Cosby. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/31 "2011-06-16T16:21:27Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I recognize the difference, but not everybody cares. Well, sure. This wouldn’t be much of a poll if everybody cared or didn’t. You can make a reasonable argument that a runny custard is some subset of “pudding,” but in my usage, they’re distinct. A pudding has a different texture than a custard. If I want custard, and get pudding, I’m disappointed. Just like when I order “barbecue” and I get something that’s been cooked in an oven and doused in barbecue sauce. Yeah, not everyone cares, but I do. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/32 "2011-06-16T16:34:38Z")
I was under the impression that most “tapioca pudding” in the US was actually just the same stuff as vanilla pudding, but with lumps of whatever starch other puddings use, and possibly some artificial flavor, not true tapioca at all. That would put it in a different sort of category from rice pudding, which always is really made with rice. Quoth **WhyNot** : > [@](#): > > Although, in reality, served a dish of glop or a donut with stuff in the middle, I’m not always sure whether it’s custard or pudding. Donut filling is usually listed as “custard”, but I think it’s generally actually pudding. It never seems to be eggy at all. Likewise, of course, frozen custard is usually non-eggy soft serve ice cream. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/33 "2011-06-16T16:42:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I was under the impression that most “tapioca pudding” in the US was actually just the same stuff as vanilla pudding, but with lumps of whatever starch other puddings use, and possibly some artificial flavor, not true tapioca at all. Generic “pudding” is usually thickened with cornstarch in the US. Tapioca pudding does have tapioca in it, although sometimes it may be a mix of tapioca and starch, with tapioca being the primary binding ingredient and cornstarch and/or modified food starch providing additional body. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/34 "2011-06-16T16:48:32Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Although, in reality, served a dish of glop or a donut with stuff in the middle, I’m not always sure whether it’s custard or pudding. In my experience, as **Chronos** says, it’s often called custard (although the Polish bakeries around my house do call it “pudding” sometimes), but it’s a mix of eggs and starch, probably based on [French Pastry Cream](http://www.cookingninja.com/207-Creme-Patissiere-French-Pastry-Cream.html). I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a pure custard in a donut. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/35 "2011-06-16T17:17:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Unmodified, it’s a specific sort of creamy dairy-based dessert, which usually comes in chocolate, vanilla, butterscotch, or tapioca flavors. There’s also “bread pudding”, “rice pudding”, “plum pudding”, and the like, but none of those would ever be referred to as just “pudding”. And pudding, to an American, _never_ contains meat-- Most Americans, on hearing of “black pudding”, will assume that it’s either dark chocolate, or a D&D monster. This pretty much covers it for me, except that **Chronos** left out banana pudding from the “usual” flavors–perhaps it’s less common outside the southern states, but it’s everywhere here. I am familiar with the various British usages, and have prepared both Yorkshire pudding and Christmas pudding (both of which I found tasty), but when I encounter the word “pudding” without context, I think of the creamy, dairy kind, served chilled. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/36 "2011-06-16T19:36:38Z")
> [@](#): > > This pretty much covers it for me, except that Chronos left out banana pudding from the “usual” flavors–perhaps it’s less common outside the southern states, but it’s everywhere here. Or perhaps I just forgot about it. It’s probably less common than chocolate, vanilla, or butterscotch, but far from rare. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/37 "2011-06-16T20:15:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And pudding, to an American, _never_ contains meat But if you don’t _eat_ your meat, you can’t have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/38 "2011-06-16T21:47:02Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > But if you don’t _eat_ your meat, you can’t have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat? Interesting. I wonder if this quote (which of course comes from a Pink Floyd song) makes much sense to people outside the UK. The sense in which ‘pudding’ is used here is the general term for the dessert course of a meal. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/39 "2011-06-16T21:51:40Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Interesting. I wonder if this quote (which of course comes from a Pink Floyd song) makes much sense to people outside the UK. > > The sense in which ‘pudding’ is used here is the general term for the dessert course of a meal. I already understood this British usage. Actually, if I’m not mistaken, the “meat” here isn’t necessarily “meat” in the specific sense of “animal flesh” but just “meat” in the general sense of “solid food” or “a meal.” Either way, if I hadn’t I think it would make perfect sense in the American meaning. The kid wants pudding (for dessert, presumably) and he can’t get it until he’s eaten meat. It seems oddly specific, but perhaps appropriately surreal or absurd in the context of a Pink Floyd lyric. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572/40 "2011-06-16T22:00:13Z")
An American not familiar with the British usage would probably just assume that pudding was what the family was having for dessert that night. It’d be about the same as “If you don’t eat your meat, you can’t have any ice cream”, or “If you don’t eat your meat, you can’t have any pie”. Even if not every dessert is pudding, it’s still a perfectly reasonable and normal thing to have for dessert. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-terminology-v3-pudding/585572.md?page=3)