# Food turning sour if you refrigerate it with a closed lid **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 11, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479 "2023-04-11T01:16:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/21 "2023-04-11T19:37:45Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Food should spend as little time as possible in the “danger zone” temperature of bacterial formation. Sealing it immediately will trap the heat inside and allow it to stay in the danger zone longer (with above-mentioned condensation making matters worse). This is exactly correct. It’s easy to see in this thread who’s studied safe food handling practices in order to get a food handler’s permit and who hasn’t. Danger zone = approximately 40F - 140F. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/22 "2023-04-11T21:01:02Z")
I’ve seen a lot of people say “OMG Botulism!” regarding dented cans, although I don’t really see any mechanism by which that could occur: If there are already viable C. botulinum spores inside the can, then: - A dent that doesn’t pierce the can makes no difference (it’s already unsafe) - A dent that does pierce the can might actually disadvantage them (by allowing oxygen in) If there aren’t already viable C. botulinum spores in the can, then: - A non-piercing dent makes no difference (it’s still not contaminated) - A piercing dent significant enough to introduce them would probably also introduce other things that would cause the contents to spoil in a perceptible manner The only mechanism I can conceive for dents in cans causing botulism is: Manufacturers seal in viable C. Botulinum spores between the can and the liner and the dent cracks the liner, releasing them. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/23 "2023-04-11T21:17:14Z")
The botulism/cans warning is mostly that a swollen can could be a sign of [botulism growing in the can.](https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/Resources/ask-a-food-safety-scientist-what-is-clostridium-botulinum#:~:text=When%20Clostridium%20botulinum%20is%20allowed,shipment%20or%20discard%20the%20cans.) And even if it’s not botulism, it’s probably something you don’t want to eat. The linked article also says dents might hide tiny holes that could allow botulism into the can, although that seems like more of a stretch for the reasons you state. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/24 "2023-04-11T22:08:19Z")
Cooling a large volume of hot food in the refrigerator could make your freezer way colder, since on most normal appliances (i.e. not SubZero which has separate refrigeration systems for each compartment) the thermostat is in the refrigerator, but something like 90% of the air goes into the freezer. So if you put that big pot of soup in the fridge after dinner, you may find that your nighttime ice cream is hard as a rock and you can’t scoop it out of the tub. I can think of no worse tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/25 "2023-04-12T07:10:11Z")
Sure, but on the internet, where nuance goes to die, this turns into the widely-repeated factoid that dented cans cause botulism ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/26 "2023-04-12T07:43:39Z")
> [@pjd](#): > > I was always under the impression that one should never put warm food into > the fridge period. I don’t remember why. The version that I’m familiar with that actually makes sense is to never put hot food into the **freezer**. Not putting hot items into the refrigerator section is mostly a holdover from the days of the actual “icebox”, where you had limited cooling ability and it would melt the ice faster. In a modern fridge, the main problem with putting hot or warm items in the freezer is that if the item is large and hot enough, it may begin to thaw nearby items, which will then refreeze, which is not good for quality and possibly even for safety. I try not to put hot or significantly warm items into the refrigerator part, either, because it could upset the refrigeration cycle that has to balance the temperature of the freezer, the fridge, and the defrost cycle. In the winter, I put hot leftovers in the cold garage before refrigerating; in the summer, I just let them cool for a short time at room temperature. > [@Mangetout](#): > > In the old days, fridges might have struggled to keep everything cold if you put a large amount of something hot in them - so doing this could raise the fridge temperature for a while and cause other things in there to spoil quicker (in theory). > > As I understand it, that’s not generally an issue with modern fridges, as long as the amount being added is smallish in volume (like a few portions in size). I tend to grocery shop somewhat infrequently and then stock up on a lot, which means fridge and freezer tend to get loaded up quite a bit after one of these shopping binges. The stuff that goes in the freezer is entirely – or almost entirely – already frozen, and the stuff in the fridge is very much still cold. And yet, I’ve consistently noticed that every time the fridge has a large amount of new stuff put in it, it runs continuously for a really long time. The last time I’m pretty sure it ran continuously for more than 24 hours. I could easily have missed one of its off-cycles, but I was in the kitchen pretty often and it was definitely running way more than normal. It always returns to normal after about 24 hours. It might be because I have the temperature set to colder than normal – around 33-34°F – so almost everything that goes in requires extra cooling. ---
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/27 "2023-04-12T13:28:27Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The one thing I like about winter is that I can run a pot of soup/stew/whatever out to the porch to cool before refrigerating it. Same here! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/28 "2023-04-12T14:03:22Z")
I too enjoyed having what I called “the infinite freezer”. Worked great for cauldrons of soup, stew, etc. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/29 "2023-04-12T14:12:10Z")
We call it the “big fridge” (the garage) and the “big freezer” (the back yard). Yeah, I like that, too. I leave stuff to cool on the countertop, so as not to work the fridge or freezer too hard. But if It’s late at night or something and I just want to get stuff put away, I’ll sometimes put hot stuff directly in the freezer. I try not to place it close to anything too sensitive. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/30 "2023-04-12T14:21:11Z")
My non-professional view has always been that leaving things to cool on the counter to room-ish temperature then refrigerating / freezing them is the worst of all possible worlds. Doing that _max_imizes the time the stuff spends in the danger zone. And does so out in the open where there’s more chance of floating contaminants getting into the food. Yes, there is a tradeoff about possibly putting in something so big and so hot that it heats the rest of what’s in your fridge/freezer up into the danger zone. So don’t make such a huge volume that that’s an issue. And/ or have a strong enough fridge that the issue doesn’t arise. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/31 "2023-04-12T14:27:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > My non-professional view has always been that leaving things to cool on the counter to room-ish temperature then refrigerating / freezing them is the worst of all possible worlds. Yeah, I would always just let it cool until it’s cooled off significantly, but still hot. (So aiming for a temp of about 140). Then it goes straight into the fridge. In practice, though, this means after serving and once everyone has eaten, it’s straight into the fridge for most things, as it’s already cooled down a bit below that point, even. (At least for my stuff that is cooked in a dutch oven on the stovetop.) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/32 "2023-04-12T18:46:49Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > My non-professional view has always been that leaving things to cool on the counter to room-ish temperature then refrigerating / freezing them is the worst of all possible worlds. I agree. I should stress that in the summer, when my garage no longer works as a refrigerator, I meant that particularly hot items are left to cool down somewhat **at** room temperature, not **to** room temperature. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/33 "2023-04-12T18:58:12Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Doing that _max_imizes the time the stuff spends in the danger zone. And does so out in the open where there’s more chance of floating contaminants getting into the food. Yes, there is a tradeoff about possibly putting in something so big and so hot that it heats the rest of what’s in your fridge/freezer up into the danger zone. So don’t make such a huge volume that that’s an issue. And/ or have a strong enough fridge that the issue doesn’t arise. You don’t ever brew a few gallons of broth, do you? You don’t put a few gallons of nearly-boiling broth into the fridge, even if you have split it into lots of smaller containers. Not if there’s anything else in the fridge that you value. You cover it and leave it on the counter until it’s just warm, and then put it the freezer. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/34 "2023-04-12T19:11:18Z")
I don’t have freezer space for that, so I aggressively reduce and reconstitute when needed. Bonus is that I have extra concentrated broth on hand to use like better than bouillon! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/35 "2023-04-12T19:11:26Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > This is exactly correct. It’s easy to see in this thread who’s studied safe food handling practices in order to get a food handler’s permit and who hasn’t. Mangetout had it first - [Food turning sour if you refrigerate it with a closed lid - #10 by Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/10) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/36 "2023-04-12T20:28:49Z")
Yes, but glass shelves in fridges are tempered glass. While they can still break from extreme temperature changes, they are less likely to do so compared to regular glass. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/37 "2023-04-12T20:30:38Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This is the way. [https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0558/1268/6014/products/dn38320\_\_1\_1024x1024.jpg?v=1673056814](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0558/1268/6014/products/dn38320__1_1024x1024.jpg?v=1673056814) ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2023, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479/38 "2023-04-16T08:21:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Spoilage mostly comes from some sort of organism (such as mold or bacteria) growing in/on the food, and those organisms aren’t spontaneously generated. Wait wait wait… you lost me there. Not spontaneously generated? Are you _sure_? 😁 😃 🫢 😆 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/food-turning-sour-if-you-refrigerate-it-with-a-closed-lid/982479.md?page=1)