# Foody Do's and Dont's that in your opinion don't make a difference **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 15, 2013, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385 "2013-05-15T08:54:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/41 "2013-05-15T17:40:26Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > Serving the salad before a meal. > > Pffffft… it should be served after. With a cheese plate. I’d say that what YOU do is the “foodie” thing. 😃 > [@Kimballkid](#): > > Alton Brown did it too! [Here’s](http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season2/Mushroom/MushroomTranscript.htm) the transcript to that show. He also did the room temperature steak thing. If Alton does it, it must make a difference! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/42 "2013-05-15T17:44:10Z")
I do steak straight from the fridge, and I like it medium rare. But I also cook it in a very slow oven (250-275) for 20-25 minutes before finishing it up on a very, very hot pan. (Or similar approach to grill.) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/43 "2013-05-15T17:53:12Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > I don’t think bay leaves do anything at all to the flavors of anything you put them in. I can’t tell any difference whether I use two, four, six or none at all. I wonder if I could chop them up and make tea. We have a small bay tree and a dwarf kaffir lime tree. Bay leaves picked, bruised, and used fresh are better IMO than dried. Same is true for kaffir lime leaves. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/44 "2013-05-15T17:58:38Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > I don’t think bay leaves do anything at all to the flavors of anything you put them in. I can’t tell any difference whether I use two, four, six or none at all. I wonder if I could chop them up and make tea. I’ll cop to that. I really don’t know what the “bay leaf” flavor is. I’ve tried frying it in oil and I’m still not sure I could identify it. I can tell rosemary, sage, thyme, marjoram, oregano, etc., in an instant, but I really can’t figure out bay leafs. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/45 "2013-05-15T18:00:48Z")
Well goddammit. I spent 2 bucks on a jar of bay leaves for that carbonnade flamande dish. Don’t tell me it was all for naught. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/46 "2013-05-15T18:02:06Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Browning meat before making a stew. I’ve not noticed an appreciable difference in the stew when using browned vs non browned meat and not browning it saves 10 or 15 minutes of standing in front of the stove. > [@pulykamell](#): > > See, for me it makes a decent amount of difference, and there’s some stews I _won’t_ brown the meat for because I don’t want that “browned” flavor in there (like, for example, veal paprikash.) If you brown meat properly (don’t crowd the pan, have it nice and hot, edges should properly “brown” and not just turn grey) there is a definite “meaty” and “rich” type of taste to it, for lack of better descriptor. When I say I don’t brown veal for paprikash, it’s because I want the dish to remain delicate and the browning adds a certain heavy meatiness to it that I don’t want. > > As for draining fried ground beef, that depends. What I usually do is fry ground beef first, and then drain off any excess fat that’s not necessary for the frying up of the onions or vegetables that usually comes next. Not draining the fat makes for a very greasy sauce. I like fat _a lot_, but even I notice that greasy film on your tongue and lips from a sauce that has way too much fat in it. If I make a pot roast or beef stew, I think it’s well worth my time to brown the meat first. And I usually dredge it in seasoned flour before I brown it, too. I rarely make veal. As for draining ground beef, I usually remove the beef to a plate when it’s about half done, then drain the fat and liquids. Put the beef back in the skillet. It might need draining again, it might not. But I usually do drain it. I generally buy 80% lean ground chuck, I think that it’s the most flavorful for ground beef. And I always drain meatloaf, at least once and maybe twice. It really, really makes a difference. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/47 "2013-05-15T18:02:35Z")
I think bay leaves are a flavor enhancer, not a flavor unto themselves. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/48 "2013-05-15T18:08:33Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > I never add oil to pasta water before boiling, although I do add salt. The idea that a bit of oil will keep the pasta from sticking together is absurd. And I always drain my pasta, then dump it straight into the sauce to keep cooking a bit. I’ve never had any issue with pasta sticking together. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Actually the oil thing does work. You just have to use enough. I use about a tablespoon in a large pot of water. > [@Athena](#): > > But yeah, taste-wise, in the 99% of food where the salt simply dissolves? No difference. > > You’re not adding enough salt to the water if you can’t tell the difference. Most people don’t. You should taste your pasta cooking water; if it doesn’t taste slightly salty, it’s not going to do a damn thing to your pasta. Pasta cooked in properly salted water will taste different even to people who don’t particularly care about stuff like this. Whether or not you like the difference is personal opinion, but you will be able to detect it if you put the right amount of salt in the water. This whole salting-while-cooking thing is madness. I agree you have to add _a lot_ of salt while cooking to taste it in the food. But if you do that, then what does that do to your sodium intake? Spike! Until you hit that magic tipping point, most salt put in while cooking will not be able to be detected by taste. So, stop putting it in! (Unless it’s needed for a chemical reaction as in the case with some baked goods.) A lot of salt in the recipe goes untasted. A little bit of salt coating the outside is very tastiful. Same with oil in water cooking spaghetti. Why not add a tablespoon once it’s done and toss it around until evenly coated? Seasoning while cooking in most cases should be reserved for the sauces unless you want it to make a dramatic effect on the food, in which case, you’ll need _a lot_ of that seasoning. Otherwise, lightly season topically before serving. > [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > Foodie. Also, hoodie and hippie. I’m with you. When someone tells me they’re a ‘foodie’, I tell them I’m an ‘eatie.’ ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/49 "2013-05-15T18:11:24Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > I never add oil to pasta water before boiling, although I do add salt. The idea that a bit of oil will keep the pasta from sticking together is absurd. And I always drain my pasta, then dump it straight into the sauce to keep cooking a bit. I’ve never had any issue with pasta sticking together. It is absurd. Oil and water don’t mix, right? Basic fact. Even if you covered the pasta in oil, as soon as it hits the water it will come right off and float to the surface. The only thing that will keep pasta from sticking together is motion. However, I find that putting a few drops of oil into the pasta pot isn’t complete bollocks. It just doesn’t do as advertised. What it does do is break up the surface tension on the water, helping to prevent all that foam that forms from boiling over onto you cooktop. If you use a smaller pot than you ought to cook in because you’re impatient, like I am a lot, the oil thing really does help. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/50 "2013-05-15T18:16:37Z")
The thing to keep in mind about oil in the past water (which is bunk anyway) is that if the oil keeps the pasta apart, it would also keep the sauce and pasta apart. So it’s a bad idea any way you look at it, except for the surface tension bit noted above. ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/51 "2013-05-15T18:39:34Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Alton Brown did it too! [Here’s](http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season2/Mushroom/MushroomTranscript.htm) the transcript to that show. As long as you’re washing mushrooms, here’s a great tip: Throw your unwashed mushrooms in a big bowl of water. Throw a handful of flour into the bowl. Toss the mushrooms around in the bowl of flour water with your spread fingers. The flour acts as an abrasive and scrubs those 'shrooms clean as a whistle. You don’t have to use no fancy mushroom brush and clean each one individually. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/52 "2013-05-15T18:41:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s not just the fat you’re draining, it’s the water, which tends to start to stew the mince and other stuff, rather than brown it properly. True. Use a large pan so it’s a thin layer and it takes only a couple of minutes to boil off that water, though. That is, if it matters. Much of the time, the next step in the recipe is to add broth or tomato juice or another liquid, in which case I don’t bother even doing that. > [@pulykamell](#): > > As for draining fried ground beef, that depends. What I usually do is fry ground beef first, and then drain off any excess fat that’s not necessary for the frying up of the onions or vegetables that usually comes next. Not draining the fat makes for a very greasy sauce. I like fat _a lot_, but even I notice that greasy film on your tongue and lips from a sauce that has way too much fat in it. I think most of that “fat” is water. [4 ounces of 93/7 lean ground beef has 7.2 grams of fat](http://www.sparkpeople.com/calories-in.asp?food=93/7+ground+beef). That’s less than 2 teaspoons of fat ([1.69, actually](http://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/food-weight-to-volume)), times 4 to get to a pound - 6.76 teaspoons fat, total. Much of that is still in the mince, or coating it, so less than that is loose drainable fat. Call it half, which leaves you with a tablespoon or so of fat in the pot - exactly as much butter many recipes would have you then brown your onions in. And if you leave the fat in, 93/7 is just as tasty as 80/20 when used in a dish. (Use 80/20 for burgers, though.) > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > And I always drain meatloaf, at least once and maybe twice. It really, really makes a difference. Oh, no no no. What you do with meatloaf is bake it on a couple of slices of bread. The fat soaks into the bread, leaving the meatloaf lean and delicious. Then you tell your kids the toxic fat soaked crisp bread is bad for them and leave it behind on the baking sheet. When you’re washing up, you nibble on that delicious fat soaked bread, daring your gall bladder to protest! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/53 "2013-05-15T18:45:07Z")
Yes, I was also going to come in and say that adding oil to the pasta water stops the pot from boiling over, and that’s why I do it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/54 "2013-05-15T18:45:40Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Yeah, it might taste fine to you, but can you tell the difference, or is it so mild that you don’t even notice? You’re not adding enough salt to the water if you can’t tell the difference. Most people don’t. You should taste your pasta cooking water; if it doesn’t taste slightly salty, it’s not going to do a damn thing to your pasta. Pasta cooked in properly salted water will taste different even to people who don’t particularly care about stuff like this. Whether or not you like the difference is personal opinion, but you will be able to detect it if you put the right amount of salt in the water. It took me a long time to convince my wife to salt her pasta water, because the difference is so stark: to me it’s like the difference between salted and unsalted bread. Pasta cooked in unsalted water tastes really bland to me. Me, I don’t let my pie crusts rest in the fridge between mixing and rolling, like many pastry chefs tell me to do. In my experience, my pie crusts become harder, not easier, to work with after such a rest, and I don’t really notice a difference. It may be because I like pie crusts that are really buttery and almost cookielike in texture, in stead of soft and flaky; but given the rave reviews they get, I’m gonna keep making the way I make them. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/55 "2013-05-15T18:52:08Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I think most of that “fat” is water. [4 ounces of 93/7 lean ground beef has 7.2 grams of fat](http://www.sparkpeople.com/calories-in.asp?food=93/7+ground+beef). OK, we’re definitely frying up some different shit. I don’t touch ground beef unless it’s at least 80-20 lean:fat, with the “at least” referring to the fat content. Seriously, I don’t do lean ground beef, for the most part But to expound upon my post, what I’m talking about is that greasy mouthfeel you get when you don’t drain the fat appropriately. Doesn’t matter what you started with, there is a certain greasy texture/mouthfeel you’re left with if you don’t pay attention to the fats in your meat. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/56 "2013-05-15T19:01:16Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > It’s not so much that I ignore some rules, It’s that I think they are just wrong. > > Never flip your burger more than once!!. Um why? I flip at least 3 times, just to confuse gravity trying to drain all the juiciness out. Almost out the bottom huh? now go all the way back through. There is still enough drippy to make yummy smoke for the burgers though. There is a real reason for this. The point is to get the maximum amount of crust with the minimum amount of cooking the middle. Flipping the burger over means you start heating up a cold side, generate a tiny amount of browning, then flip it over to another cold side and generate a tiny amount of browning, then flip it back to a cold side for a paltry amount of browning, then back again to cold for a bit of browning. You need high heat for browning, and every time you flip you’re cooling. Do it your way and by the time the center is cooked the outside is only lightly browned, and by the time the outside is deeply browned the center is overcooked. Let it sit on one side until deeply, deeply browned. Then flip it to the other side until cooked through. Then off the heat. Maximum crust. Maximum succulence. Note that if you like your burgers well done, or don’t like the crust, or whatever, then your way is perfectly fine. But most people like crust and like moisture, and this is the best way to get the most of both. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/57 "2013-05-15T19:09:35Z")
If you like really thick burgers, does that change things? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/58 "2013-05-15T19:13:30Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > There is a real reason for this. The point is to get the maximum amount of crust with the minimum amount of cooking the middle. Flipping the burger over means you start heating up a cold side, generate a tiny amount of browning, then flip it over to another cold side and generate a tiny amount of browning, then flip it back to a cold side for a paltry amount of browning, then back again to cold for a bit of browning. You need high heat for browning, and every time you flip you’re cooling. Do it your way and by the time the center is cooked the outside is only lightly browned, and by the time the outside is deeply browned the center is overcooked. > > Let it sit on one side until deeply, deeply browned. Then flip it to the other side until cooked through. Then off the heat. Maximum crust. Maximum succulence. > > Note that if you like your burgers well done, or don’t like the crust, or whatever, then your way is perfectly fine. But most people like crust and like moisture, and this is the best way to get the most of both. And, while I tend to only flip once, this is not necessarily correct. This is why I say, try it out, and see what YOU like. [See here.](http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/02/the-burger-lab-how-many-times-should-you-flip-a-burger-while-cooking.html) That’s not exactly the page I was looking for, but I’ve read of the haute cuisine type of chefs recommending the contant flipping method. I should ask my brother about this, as he is the one who told me. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/59 "2013-05-15T19:17:28Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > There is a real reason for this. The point is to get the maximum amount of crust with the minimum amount of cooking the middle. Flipping the burger over means you start heating up a cold side, generate a tiny amount of browning, then flip it over to another cold side and generate a tiny amount of browning, then flip it back to a cold side for a paltry amount of browning, then back again to cold for a bit of browning. You need high heat for browning, and every time you flip you’re cooling. Do it your way and by the time the center is cooked the outside is only lightly browned, and by the time the outside is deeply browned the center is overcooked. > > Let it sit on one side until deeply, deeply browned. Then flip it to the other side until cooked through. Then off the heat. Maximum crust. Maximum succulence. > > Note that if you like your burgers well done, or don’t like the crust, or whatever, then your way is perfectly fine. But most people like crust and like moisture, and this is the best way to get the most of both. I can get any level of crusting I want by turning the flames so high they touch the burger at the end for 20 seconds. There is a maximum appreciable level of crust. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385/60 "2013-05-15T19:40:36Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Cook’s Illustrated tested this fable and discovered just what you think: washing mushrooms is just fine. In the amount of time they are soaking they absorb _virtually zero_ liquid. So wash away! Hey, I don’t want nothing soaking up any virtual water! 😛 There’s only one case when it is appropriate to not drain the fat from hamburger, and it’s pretty limited. That would be when you’re in the BWCA (or other wilderness area) and you’re making stroganoff. The extra calories are welcome, and you’re not going to complain about taste or texture when you’re looking at freeze dried whatever for the rest of the week. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foody-dos-and-donts-that-in-your-opinion-dont-make-a-difference/658385.md?page=4)