# Football Concussions, the next Big Thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 19, 2012, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696 "2012-07-19T08:46:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/121 "2017-09-25T01:49:18Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Does it really change things? [From Cris Carter,](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/09/22/cris-carter-gets-emotional-while-discussing-cte-his-career-and-aaron-hernandezs-diagnosis/?utm_term=.03db0b271b27) all-pro player and sports announcer > > and I’m sure he’s not alone in these sentiments. For some players, it certainly doesn’t / won’t. But, there’ve already been several star players who have decided to retire early (such as 49ers linebacker Chris Borland), and specifically cited concerns about CTE as why. I suspect that that’ll continue, but what’ll be more invisible to us are the kids who don’t ever even start playing. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/122 "2017-09-25T02:38:01Z")
(This thread is now over five years old. Imagine that.) ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/123 "2017-09-25T03:24:14Z")
I hate watching NFL because too damn many commercials and everything has a sponsor. I was also reading how many NFL games now, especially those during the week, have low attendance. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/124 "2017-09-25T11:33:37Z")
Agree NFL is unwatchable without pre-recording the show then replaying while zapping all the commercials. I wonder how long before some agreement between sponsors and streaming sources makes that impossible for all (non-bootleg) shows? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/125 "2017-09-25T15:27:02Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > I actually thing the opposite would happen. If the NFL has a smaller talent pool to pick from, they would end up having to take a lot of mediocre players. But there would be a few players who are just as good as the best players are today, and they’d be dominant. Kind of how in college football, some superstars play like they are in the NFL already and everyone else on the field is just a redshirt. I remember one Rose bowl game around 2005 (I am not a football fan, it was at someone’s house) where a ‘triple-threat’ player, the team’s QB, was on fourth down and decided to just get it done himself and he ninja jukes past all the defenders trying to stop him. This was the conclusion of a game full of dominant plays by the player, where he and the superstar on the opposing team were basically playing 1 v 1, and everyone else was just background. > > It might be more interesting if there were more superstars. Today, if every athlete is near the limits of human performance anyways, nobody can stand out by as large of a factor. I suspect that the Rose Bowl player you’re thinking of was Texas QB Vince Young, who had a huge game in the 2006 Rose Bowl. Referring back to the minor-league arena football team for which I briefly worked – the season before I worked with them, their quarterback was a guy named Juice Williams. Williams had been a reasonably successful player at the University of Illinois, but never even had more than a tryout in the NFL. But, in the talent pool of a minor-league arena team (where most of the players had been at Division II or III schools), he was head and shoulders better than anyone else. My friend, who had been the statistician for the team that year, said it was like watching a high school senior playing against 8th graders. My understanding is that the early days of the NFL were sort of like that – there were a few extremely talented players, who were clearly far better than most of their opposition (such as Ernie Nevers or Don Hutson), and who dominated the games in which they played. Maybe you’re right, maybe the NFL becomes more like that. But, part of the conceit of the current NFL is the idea of parity, and that “on any given Sunday, any team can beat any other team.” Whether that’s true or not is another issue – ask any Browns fan. But, that’s a matter of poor management of some teams more than any fundamental structural flaw in how the league is set up. If the league winds up in a place where there are a few dominant players, then maybe it’s a fun game to watch if you’re a fan of those players’ teams, but if your team isn’t fortunate enough to have one of them, it becomes an exercise in futility. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/126 "2017-09-25T15:43:48Z")
Back to concussions: [Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2017/09/23/football-deathwatch-detecting-cte-early-new-brain-damage-study-and-trump/#485f887a6901) has a brand new article out about the possibility of detecting CTE while people are still alive, as opposed to the current situation where CTE can only be discovered after death. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/127 "2017-09-26T15:13:09Z")
Players of any professional sport need to realize, yes its a game but also, its a product. It’s entertainment. Yes, they play football but the cheerleaders, the mascot, the half time entertainment, the music, and yes, the national anthem are all part of that entertainment. That being their product has to compete with other entertainments and the money from the fans. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/128 "2017-09-26T15:15:15Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I suspect that the Rose Bowl player you’re thinking of was Texas QB Vince Young, who had a huge game in the 2006 Rose Bowl. > > Referring back to the minor-league arena football team for which I briefly worked – the season before I worked with them, their quarterback was a guy named Juice Williams. Williams had been a reasonably successful player at the University of Illinois, but never even had more than a tryout in the NFL. But, in the talent pool of a minor-league arena team (where most of the players had been at Division II or III schools), he was head and shoulders better than anyone else. My friend, who had been the statistician for the team that year, said it was like watching a high school senior playing against 8th graders. > > My understanding is that the early days of the NFL were sort of like that – there were a few extremely talented players, who were clearly far better than most of their opposition (such as Ernie Nevers or Don Hutson), and who dominated the games in which they played. Maybe you’re right, maybe the NFL becomes more like that. > > But, part of the conceit of the current NFL is the idea of parity, and that “on any given Sunday, any team can beat any other team.” Whether that’s true or not is another issue – ask any Browns fan. But, that’s a matter of poor management of some teams more than any fundamental structural flaw in how the league is set up. If the league winds up in a place where there are a few dominant players, then maybe it’s a fun game to watch if you’re a fan of those players’ teams, but if your team isn’t fortunate enough to have one of them, it becomes an exercise in futility. You know one BIG problem, the price of victory. Here in Kansas City for years the KC Chiefs really sucked. Then years ago they got better, more fans went to the games and guess what? The ticket prices shot up! So that’s the price a fan has to pay when their team does well. So sometimes your hoping your team loses. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/129 "2017-09-26T15:26:08Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You know one BIG problem, the price of victory. > > Here in Kansas City for years the KC Chiefs really sucked. Then years ago they got better, more fans went to the games and guess what? The ticket prices shot up! So that’s the price a fan has to pay when their team does well. So sometimes your hoping your team loses. Anything to say about this new article about the topic of concussions? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/130 "2017-09-26T16:33:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Anything to say about this new article about the topic of concussions? Perhaps there would be some comment if you linked to a reputable site–not a garbage site like Forbes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/131 "2017-09-26T16:45:09Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Perhaps there would be some comment if you linked to a reputable site–not a garbage site like Forbes. What in that cite was garbage? edited to add: [Is The Atlantic also a garbage site?](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/09/football-brain-injury-chronic-traumatic-encephalopathy/540459/) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/132 "2018-12-21T21:12:33Z")
Updating this thread here is a scientific medical study of concussions in high school football players: > [@](#): > > Of 863 youth followed (996 player-seasons), 51 sustained a football-related concussion, for an athlete-level incidence of 5.1% per season. Youth with history of concussion had a 2-fold increased risk for sustaining an incident concussion (OR, 2.2; 95% CI, 1.1-4.8). Youth with depression had a 5-fold increased risk of concussion (OR, 5.6; 95% CI, 1.7-18.8). After a concussion, 50% of athletes returned to school by 3 days, 50% returned to sport by 13 days, and 50% returned to a baseline level of symptoms by 3 weeks. [https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(18)31586-5/fulltext](https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(18)31586-5/fulltext) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/133 "2019-01-07T21:04:54Z")
Concussion concerns prompt more Badgers players to leave football: University of Wisconsin’s Austin Ramesh, Walker Williams and Jake Whalen quit football after brain injuries; ‘I’m gonna have CTE — I just know it,’ Williams says > [@](#): > > In all, UW-Madison student-athletes were diagnosed with 137 concussions from 2014 to 2018, according to records from an ongoing NCAA and U.S. Department of Defense concussion study obtained by the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism under the state Open Records Law. In all, UW-Madison student-athletes were diagnosed with 137 concussions from 2014 to 2018, according to records from an ongoing NCAA and U.S. Department of Defense concussion study obtained by the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism under the state Open Records Law. > **[Concussion concerns prompt more Badgers players to leave football - Wisconsin...](https://wisconsinwatch.org/2018/12/concussion-concerns-prompt-more-badgers-players-to-leave-football/)** > > University of Wisconsin’s Austin Ramesh, Walker Williams and Jake Whalen quit football after brain injuries; ‘I’m gonna have CTE — I just know it,’ Williams says. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/134 "2022-06-02T04:10:47Z")
Another victim? Marion Barber dead at 38: > **[Coroner’s report on former Dallas Cowboys RB Marion Barber should include the...](https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article262048577.html)** > > Marion Barber’s NFL career ended when he was 28. He would live 10 more years. Football played a role. \[Opinion\] ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/135 "2022-06-02T04:21:55Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Another victim? Marion Barber dead at 38: It certainly seems possible. The article to which you linked seems to be more of an opinion piece; the following, more news-y piece, also from the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, contains this passage: > [@](#): > > In 2014, Barber was detained by Mansfield police and taken to a hospital for a mental health evaluation. > > He was arrested in 2019 on two misdemeanor counts of criminal mischief over a 2018 incident in which he was alleged to have damaged two cars by while he was running in Frisco. > > According to KXAS Channel 5, a witness alleged that Barber charged toward their vehicle, causing large dents to the side of their cars. > > Per a source, Barber had been hospitalized twice for mental health evaluations since his retirement in 2012. > > Roughly a year ago, former Cowboys receiver Dez Bryant wrote on Twitter that he couldn’t even enjoy watching old highlights of Barber because he knew he was down and out bad: “As I watch this video and me knowing exactly how Marion barber life is going right now today is why I built @personalcorner … I can’t even enjoy it because he’s down and out bad…we are just a stat and moments to most people…” Bryant posted on Twitter. > **[Former Dallas Cowboys RB Marion Barber found dead in his apartment by Frisco...](https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article262044907.html)** > > Barber was a Pro Bowler in 2007 after rushing for 975 yards with 10 touchdowns in a season that he didn’t start a game for Dallas. ---
**Author:** ![RedSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/67e7ee/32.png) [@RedSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSky)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2022, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/136 "2022-06-02T06:45:44Z")
It’s no secret that head injury in rugby league leads to chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Concussion is a big issue issue downunder, its usually but not exclusively caused buy illegal play, if you concussed your off the field. For a number of years Australian players have been given computerised cognition tests to establish a baseline. It’s a step in the right direction although I’ve heard of players struggling to pass before the season starts or being told not to go too hard at the test. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/137 "2022-07-12T04:16:27Z")
I was wrong: According to the autopsy report, one of the bathtub faucets in Barber’s apartment was running when officers arrived, and the unit’s thermostat was set to 91 degrees with the heat set to “on.” Officers also found exercise equipment in the unit. “Mr. Barber was known to exercise in sauna-like conditions,” the coroner wrote in his report. > **[Ex-Cowboys running back Marion Barber III's death caused by heatstroke,...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/cowboys/2022/07/11/marion-barber-cause-death-dallas-cowboys-running-back-heat-stroke/10033698002/)** > > Frisco police have been investigating Marion Barber III's death since the former Cowboys running back was found in a Dallas apartment on June 1. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/138 "2022-07-13T22:19:43Z")
Even if he didn’t die of brain damage, Barber would have been a prime candidate for such. He was always deliberately ramming his head into opposing players. As a Cowboys fan, I hated watching him play for that reason, because I always cringed, thinking of the cerebral damage he was doing to himself. I did not like watching Roy Williams (safety-31#) either for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/139 "2022-08-05T17:04:53Z")
While this happened a long time ago it’s possible football concussions were the cause of this suicide/murder (Jim Tyrer): > Tina Tyrer Moore, the eldest of the four children who was in college at the time of her parents’ deaths, has one of his old helmets. The padding, she said, “is not even a half-inch thick.” > > Brad doesn’t remember any specific conversations about whether his father suffered concussions, but he did recall “quite a bit of talk about ‘head pain’ and it seemed that pain had to do with helmets that were too small to fit my dad’s head,” he wrote in an email. “Because they couldn’t get an outer helmet shell large enough, I somewhat remember that they would remove material from the inside (padding and suspension) to allow for more room inside.” [https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/an-nfl-star-a-murder-suicide-and-the-family-left-behind/ar-AA10iP8e](https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/an-nfl-star-a-murder-suicide-and-the-family-left-behind/ar-AA10iP8e) [Note this article is on msn–so not paywalled.] ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696/140 "2022-08-05T18:03:27Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Tina Tyrer Moore, the eldest of the four children who was in college at the time of her parents’ deaths, has one of his old helmets. The padding, she said, “is not even a half-inch thick.” > > Brad doesn’t remember any specific conversations about whether his father suffered concussions, but he did recall “quite a bit of talk about ‘head pain’ and it seemed that pain had to do with helmets that were too small to fit my dad’s head,” he wrote in an email. “Because they couldn’t get an outer helmet shell large enough, I somewhat remember that they would remove material from the inside (padding and suspension) to allow for more room inside.” That is an interesting couple of paragraphs, and they stood out to me for a somewhat different reason. When I was a teenager, in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and rabidly into NFL football, I checked out and read a ton of books about football from the local library (it being Green Bay, I suppose it’s not surprising that they had a lot of such books). I remember reading a book about O.J. Simpson, while he was still a widely-admired sports hero. The book mentioned that Simpson had a very big head, to the point that, when he arrived at training camp for the Buffalo Bills in his rookie season, they didn’t have a helmet that was big enough for him. He couldn’t participate in contact drills until the Bills were able to obtain (and repaint) the helmet which he had worn while playing for USC. The passage above makes me now wonder if Simpson (or his teams’ equipment managers) had to similarly “adjust” his helmets to fit him. It might possibly help to explain some of his later, horrid, acts. (FWIW, I played tackle football, briefly, as a high school freshman in 1979. The helmet I was wearing was probably 10+ years old, and its “padding” was fairly primitive, as well as being old. After getting a concussion during a tackling drill, I quit the team. Helmets from that era likely were pretty poor at protecting the brain.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-concussions-the-next-big-thing/628696.md?page=8)