# Football Fans: "Shovel" or "Shuffle" Pass? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 8, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863 "2010-11-08T03:10:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/1 "2010-11-08T03:10:07Z")
You know, when the QB casually flips the ball forward \<5 yds to a running back. I call it a shuffle pass, my wife calls it a shovel pass, but neither of us can come up with a compelling argument one way of the other. What say the great Doper hive mind? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/2 "2010-11-08T03:16:43Z")
Shovel. My WAG (never thought about it before) is that the QB’s movement mimics using a shovel. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/3 "2010-11-08T03:16:48Z")
Shovel. It’s a similar motion to shoveling dirt. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/4 "2010-11-08T03:18:06Z")
Hey **Munch** , would that be a simulpost or same-ol’-post? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/5 "2010-11-08T03:19:10Z")
Shovel. While we’re at it, it’s hook and lateral, not hook and ladder. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/6 "2010-11-08T04:42:56Z")
I first learned about this play in the Seventies, when Roger Staubach often got the ball to guys like Preston Pearson that way. Used to drive us Giants fans nuts. Definitely a shovel pass. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/7 "2010-11-08T04:46:37Z")
its shuffle pass and hook and ladder ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/8 "2010-11-08T04:50:18Z")
[Déjà vu](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=98599) even down to the asides. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/9 "2010-11-08T05:36:26Z")
Palm up when passing = shovel, like the tool Palm down when passing = shuffle, like the throwing action in shuffleboard I have no idea if this is true but I just wanted to point out the ridiculousness of using “it mimics shoveling dirt" as an argument ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/10 "2010-11-08T07:08:17Z")
There’s a third one: shuttle pass. I call it a shovel pass, but experts (coaches, play-by-by guys, and analysts) use all three terms. Thus, all three terms are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/11 "2010-11-08T14:12:01Z")
Wait…so it’s _not_ called a scuttle pass? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/12 "2010-11-08T15:36:48Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > … but experts (coaches, play-by-by guys, and analysts) use all three terms. Thus, all three terms are correct. So any term used by a coach, play-by-by guy, or analyst is necessarily correct? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/13 "2010-11-08T15:52:19Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > So any term used by a coach, play-by-by guy, or analyst is necessarily correct? By definition, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/14 "2010-11-08T16:01:31Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > By definition, yes. Oh God I hope not - or we’ll have to accept that a receiver end-around is actually a reverse, or that a single reverse (one receiver on an end-around handing to another coming the other way) is actually a _double_ reverse… Or, perhaps worse, that it’s a good thing for a team to get “untracked”. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/15 "2010-11-08T16:11:17Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > So any term used by a coach, play-by-by guy, or analyst is necessarily correct? For all intensive purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/16 "2010-11-08T16:38:01Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > Palm up when passing = shovel, like the tool > > Palm down when passing = shuffle, like the throwing action in shuffleboard > > I have no idea if this is true but I just wanted to point out the ridiculousness of using “it mimics shoveling dirt" as an argument Huh? Is this a whoosh? Why is it ridiculous? The underhand flip is like a shovel shoveling dirt. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/17 "2010-11-08T20:41:58Z")
I’ve always known it as a shovel pass. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/18 "2010-11-08T23:36:26Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > [Déjà vu](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=98599) even down to the asides. What’s a “yahoo search”? Strangely, I think of it as shovel pass when it’s a qb to the running back right up the middle of the pocket, but shuffle if the offense is running the option (shuffle from side to side being similar to the qb and rb going side by side). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/19 "2010-11-08T23:49:23Z")
Yahoo was google before google came along. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863/20 "2010-11-09T00:20:59Z")
Shovel pass. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-fans-shovel-or-shuffle-pass/559863.md?page=2)