# Football Penalty Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 2, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964 "2008-01-02T03:39:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/1 "2008-01-02T03:39:51Z")
The offense scores a touchdown. An Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty is levied against the offense for a player making excessive endzone celebrations: 15 yards, to be assessed on the next kickoff. The offense tries for a two-point conversion, and the quarterack throws an interception that is run back for a TD. What happens to the penalty? Is it assessed on the _next_ kickoff that the originally penalized team makes? Or does it just disappear? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/2 "2008-01-02T04:02:11Z")
The interception doesn’t count as a TD. It counts as 2 points in the NFL, and is a dead ball in the NCAA (IIRC). Even if the defense scores on the conversion, the team scoring the touch down still kicks off. The penalty will then be assessed. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/3 "2008-01-02T04:02:44Z")
If you run the ball back on a 2 point conversion attempt, it’s not a touchdown. You get two points, and the other team kicks off just as they would have if they’d made the convert. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/4 "2008-01-02T04:03:17Z")
[QUOTE=HeyHomie] The offense scores a touchdown. An Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty is levied against the offense for a player making excessive endzone celebrations: 15 yards, to be assessed on the next kickoff. The offense tries for a two-point conversion, and the quarterack throws an interception that is run back for a TD. What happens to the penalty? Is it assessed on the _next_ kickoff that the originally penalized team makes? Or does it just disappear? [/QUOTE] A two-point conversion run back for a touch down does not count as a touchdown for the defense. In college football, it’s a defensive two-point conversion. In the NFL, it’s just an unsuccessful two-point attempt. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/5 "2008-01-02T04:12:35Z")
I finally found out the answer to a question about enforcement of penalties on kickoffs. Remember the time in the New England-Baltimore game this year when Baltimore received two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties after New England scored. That moved the kickoff from the New England 30 to the Baltimore 40. In theory, Baltimore could have continued to pick up penalties until the ball got to the 15. But the kickoff would be moved no closer and all other penalties would essentially be saved up and enforced from the line of scrimmage after the kickoff. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/6 "2008-01-02T04:13:50Z")
I should also add, in the interest of trivia, that a conversion try can result in the little-known one-point safety, given a set of circumstances I can’t quite remember. NFL only allows the offense to score a one-point safety (thus, the net result being almost like a normal one-point extra point), but in college football, it’s possible for the defense to get a one-point safety, thus, a final score of 6-1 would be possible in college (although has never happened. A few years ago I believe Texas got a one-point safety in a game). ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/7 "2008-01-02T04:35:01Z")
The defense can’t get a one-point safety in college football. Only the offense. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/8 "2008-01-02T04:44:14Z")
[QUOTE=BobT] The defense can’t get a one-point safety in college football. Only the offense. [/QUOTE] Incorrect. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_%28football_score%29): > [@](#): > > College football’s rules allow either team to score a one-point safety after a touchdown. [From here](http://quirkyresearch.blogspot.com/2006/08/one-point-safety.html): > [@](#): > > This rule change brought in play a truly obscure rule: the one-point safety. If a defensive player retreats into his own end zone following an interception, fumble, or blocked kick on a conversion attempt and is tackled there, the tackling team is awarded 1 point. ( **Similarly, if the converting team retreats into its own end zone and is tackled there, the defense is awarded 1 point, but that end zone is 97 yards away, so this is extremely unlikely**. I should add that the Texas one-point safety was an offensive one. I don’t believe there have been any defensive one-point safeties in college ball for the reasons bolded above. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/9 "2008-01-02T04:45:04Z")
[QUOTE=BobT] The defense can’t get a one-point safety in college football. Only the offense. [/QUOTE] No, that’s the NFL. In college, either offense or defense can score a conversion safety, but I believe the latter has never happened. This follows logically from the fact that in the NFL, one cannot return a conversion attempt, while one can in college (for two points). Also, what **pulykamell** said. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/10 "2008-01-02T05:02:19Z")
[QUOTE=fachverwirrt] No, that’s the NFL. In college, either offense or defense can score a conversion safety, but I believe the latter has never happened. This follows logically from the fact that in the NFL, one cannot return a conversion attempt, while one can in college (for two points). Also, what **pulykamell** said. [/QUOTE] About 15 years ago, on Halloween, Colorado blocked an extra point attempt against Nebraska (maybe a field goal) and returned it for a safety in a game that resulted in a tie. I am going off the top of my head, but I remember that it was ridiculously cold and the safety was scored by a guy from Longmont (CO) High School and ended up playing for the Raiders for quite a few years. I’ll try to find it on Google. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/11 "2008-01-02T05:08:20Z")
Here it is: Nebraska 3 6 3 7 — 19 Colorado 7 5 7 0 — 19 First Quarter NEB — FG Byron Bennett 27, 11:20 remaining Colo. — Darian Hagan 11 run (Jim Harper kick), 7:20. Second Quarter Colo. — FG Harper 27, 6:54. NEB — Jon Bostick 49 pass from Keithen McCant (Bennett kick blocked), 1:17. Colo. — **Greg Biekert 85 blocked PAT kick return, 1:17.** ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/12 "2008-01-02T05:25:49Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] Here it is: Nebraska 3 6 3 7 — 19 Colorado 7 5 7 0 — 19 First Quarter NEB — FG Byron Bennett 27, 11:20 remaining Colo. — Darian Hagan 11 run (Jim Harper kick), 7:20. Second Quarter Colo. — FG Harper 27, 6:54. NEB — Jon Bostick 49 pass from Keithen McCant (Bennett kick blocked), 1:17. Colo. — **Greg Biekert 85 blocked PAT kick return, 1:17.** [/QUOTE] But that’s not a safety. That’s a conversion returned for two points. A conversion safety would be if Colorado fumbled the ball on the return attempts, then Nebraska picked it up, ran into their end zone for some reason, and Colorado made the tackle in the end zone. All of which would be worth one point. That’s a defensive conversion safety. An offensive conversion safety would be if, after blocking the kick, Colorado ran into their own end zone (perhaps to run around coverage in an attempt to advance upfield), and were tackled in the end zone by Nebraska, which would be worth one point to Nebraska. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/13 "2008-01-02T05:38:06Z")
[QUOTE=fachverwirrt] But that’s not a safety. That’s a conversion returned for two points. A conversion safety would be if Colorado fumbled the ball on the return attempts, then Nebraska picked it up, ran into their end zone for some reason, and Colorado made the tackle in the end zone. All of which would be worth one point. That’s a defensive conversion safety. An offensive conversion safety would be if, after blocking the kick, Colorado ran into their own end zone (perhaps to run around coverage in an attempt to advance upfield), and were tackled in the end zone by Nebraska, which would be worth one point to Nebraska. [/QUOTE] If its not an offensive conversion safety and its not a defensive conversion safety (as per your explanation), what is it? I don’t see any difference between what Colorado did and snapping a punt over the head of the kicker out of the endzone. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/14 "2008-01-02T05:45:31Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] If its not an offensive conversion safety and its not a defensive conversion safety (as per your explanation), what is it? [/QUOTE] It’s a defensive two-point conversion. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/15 "2008-01-02T05:52:22Z")
A conversion safety is one point. A defensive conversion safety would be something like the quarterback being chased back 97 yards and tackled in the opposite endzone for one point (highly unlikely). Or, more likely (though still highly unlikely), I think this would also qualify: Defensive team interecepts two-point conversion, runs all the way back up the field, right before the endzone, the ball is fumbled, the offensive team recovers, for some reason ends up running into the endzone, and is tackled in the endzone by the defensive team. One point for the defense. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/16 "2008-01-02T07:24:51Z")
Actually after checking the college rule book, the most likely way for the defense to get a one point safety on a conversion would be for a massive series of penalties to force the offense to go for two from way back near its own end zone. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/17 "2008-01-02T07:50:32Z")
[QUOTE=BobT] Actually after checking the college rule book, the most likely way for the defense to get a one point safety on a conversion would be for a massive series of penalties to force the offense to go for two from way back near its own end zone. [/QUOTE] That’s the most likely way? What’s the most yards a college team has ever been penalized? It seems fumbling within five yards of the endzone and then the offense picking it up with their momentum taking them into the endzone, then being tackled, is far, far more likely. Not terribly likely at any rate, but better than the chance of the kicking team somehow racking up 90 yards’ worth of penalties after a touchdown. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/18 "2008-01-02T18:38:19Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] That’s the most likely way? What’s the most yards a college team has ever been penalized? It seems fumbling within five yards of the endzone and then the offense picking it up with their momentum taking them into the endzone, then being tackled, is far, far more likely. Not terribly likely at any rate, but better than the chance of the kicking team somehow racking up 90 yards’ worth of penalties after a touchdown. [/QUOTE] I must be misunderstanding this, because I’ve never seen anybody’s momentum taking them 95 yards? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/19 "2008-01-02T18:41:48Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] I must be misunderstanding this, because I’ve never seen anybody’s momentum taking them 95 yards? [/QUOTE] You are misunderstanding. Defense picks up/intercepts ball after botched 2-pt conversion . Runs it back 95 yards to opposite endzone (to try to pick up 2 pts for the defense), trailed closely by someone from the offense. At the five yard line the offensive player swats the ball, picks it up at the 2 (or another offensive player scoops it up at the two) and stumbles into the endzone (remember, we’re on the opposite of the field here). Before he has a chance to change direction and go back upfield, he’s tackled in the endzone by a defender. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964/20 "2008-01-02T18:49:19Z")
A la Leon Lett. Got it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-penalty-question/431964.md?page=2)