# Football players should express no opinion on same-sex marriage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939 "2012-09-07T01:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/41 "2012-09-07T14:33:04Z")
[Here’s](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/rosenwald-md/post/del-emmett-burns-blasts-ravens-for-linebackers-support-of-gay-marriage/2012/09/06/edf6f52a-f829-11e1-8398-0327ab83ab91_blog.html) the _Washington Post_’s article on this matter. [This](http://www.msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/06hse/html/msa12194.html) is the legislative information page for the legislator. This legislator, Burns, is an African-American elected as a Democrat to the House of Delegates. He’s the founder and pastor of his own baptist church. The newspaper article says this about him: > [@](#): > > Burns, founder and pastor of Rising Sun First Baptist Church, has been a frequent and high-profile critic of gay marriage, which was legalized in Maryland earlier this year, but faces a referendum vote in November. He was infuriated that President Obama expressed support for gay marriage, saying he would drop his support for Obama’s candidacy. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/42 "2012-09-07T14:40:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heh, silly me - I didn’t even spot this as an attempted “gotcha” on Bricker’s behalf. Sure, I assumed the pol was a Republican, but regardless of party, he’s a jerk. In fact, regardless of which side of the SSM issue he was on, he’s a jerk. > > In fact, this thread now reminds me of the [“Did the President mislead…”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=205995) thread that accelerated the banning of a poster named **december**. What the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/43 "2012-09-07T14:48:12Z")
Wasn’t part of the point of not identifying the politician or his party in the OP supposed to get us to assume he was a Republican? If not, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/44 "2012-09-07T14:53:47Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So I could see the owners telling the players that the team takes no position on issue X, and as representatives of the team, you are not to take a public position on issue X. These guys are high profile and their remarks are covered in the media. This is vastly different than if the local Family Dollar told the janitor that he couldn’t support the Sierra Club. Consider, for instance, the sh!tstorm that descended upon the Miami Marlins when manager Ozzie Guillen expressed public support for Fidel Castro. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/45 "2012-09-07T14:53:50Z")
Hand 1: The business can make this decision if they want to, no question. Hand 2: The government has no business pressuring businesses in this manner. Hand 3: I think it’s a bad idea for a business to make this decision, even if it’s allowed. Hand 4: If it’s just an employee acting in this manner, it won’t really have much of an effect; but if it’s management, I might alter my spending habits depending on whether I agree with the politics displayed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/46 "2012-09-07T14:55:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Wasn’t part of the point of not identifying the politician or his party in the OP supposed to get us to assume he was a Republican? > > If not, never mind. And not having provided a link in the op, he can’t accuse anyone of being a lazy reader for making such an assumption…although those who know of his posting history would catch on to his gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/47 "2012-09-07T14:59:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Wasn’t part of the point of not identifying the politician or his party in the OP supposed to get us to assume he was a Republican? > > If not, never mind. No. The point, as I said in the OP and have repeated several times in subsequent posts, was to discuss the wisdom of a business owner – in this case, the team owner – from acceding to such a request. The political party of the politician had nothing to do with it, and is completely irrelevant to the situation, and I never brought it up. How is that remotely a gotcha, or in any slight way deceptive? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/48 "2012-09-07T15:02:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And not having provided a link in the op, he can’t accuse anyone of being a lazy reader for making such an assumption…although those who know of his posting history would catch on to his gotcha. Again, the focus of my question was on the merits of the business owner’s reaction. When a question came up about the politican’s use of his office, I posted the PDF of the letter he wrote. And again I said: > [@Bricker](#): > > Well, his letter begins, “As a Delegate to the Maryland General Assembly…” > > But I’m more interested if the owner should take his advice. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/49 "2012-09-07T15:06:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Hand 1: The business can make this decision if they want to, no question. > Hand 2: The government has no business pressuring businesses in this manner. > Hand 3: I think it’s a bad idea for a business to make this decision, even if it’s allowed. > Hand 4: If it’s just an employee acting in this manner, it won’t really have much of an effect; but if it’s management, I might alter my spending habits depending on whether I agree with the politics displayed. Hand 5: in this case, it’s clearly not management, but a player who gives away tickets to his team’s game could be considered to be acting as an ambassador for the team, in the same way that players who participate in stuff like Toys for Tots are. (Obviously Toys for Tots is utterly non-controversial). Hand 6: But then how can a pro football player express his own opinion on anything? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/50 "2012-09-07T15:10:35Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > The draft, the salary cap, the media sharing – oh, the NFL has huge exemptions. MLB just has the oldest and most famous exemption. I know this is completely off topic, but how are those anti-trust exemptions? I am not asking to suggest they aren’t, just to get some detail. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/51 "2012-09-07T15:17:42Z")
Democrat / Republican … doesn’t friggin’ matter anyway. This is a simple matter of another arrogant Christian demanding that it’s his way or the highway. Fuck him with a Democratic donkey-dick. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/52 "2012-09-07T15:19:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And not having provided a link in the op, he can’t accuse anyone of being a lazy reader for making such an assumption…although those who know of his posting history would catch on to his gotcha. Actually, heh, I didn’t even notice Bricker _was_ the OP until steronz’s posts prompted me to take a second look. > [@Bricker](#): > > No. The point, as I said in the OP and have repeated several times in subsequent posts, was to discuss the wisdom of a business owner – in this case, the team owner – from acceding to such a request. The political party of the politician had nothing to do with it, and is completely irrelevant to the situation, and I never brought it up. > > How is that remotely a gotcha, or in any slight way deceptive? I cheerfully withdraw the comment. As to the issue at hand, I figure Bisciotti would be well-served to do _nothing_ in response, neither chastising nor praising the player. Any action taken by Bisciotti is likely to aggravate the situation and embroil him and the team in something that, currently, stands only to affect Burns himself. It’s possible Burns will get some short-term support, but the long-term odds aren’t on his side, and I doubt an issue like this is something Bisciotti wants to be linked to. If someone from the press insists on a statement, Bisciotti can say “Burns expressed his opinion, and that’s fine, but I’m going to concentrate on winning football games.” Unless Bisciotti _is_ pro-SSM and wants to be remembered as such, I don’t see the upside in giving Burns the public contempt he deserves. Alternatively, if Bisciotti is anti-SSM, siding with Burns is likely to backfire five or ten years from now, where people remember him as the guy who penalized a star player in the name of bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/53 "2012-09-07T15:23:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Hand 6: But then how can a pro football player express his own opinion on anything? Right. And if you extend this principle, then how many other people might be blocked from expressing their political opinions? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/54 "2012-09-07T15:28:49Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Treating people like shit and voicing an opinion are two different things. I support the right of employers to hire and fire people for almost any reason, but having the wrong politics isn’t one of them. Take the victim out of the equation then. Let’s take a hypothetical player who joins a march against SSM while wearing his football jersey and carrying a sign that says “Fags as dads = child abuse.” Would you object to the team owner firing said douchebag? I wouldn’t. He’s out there in public, as a representative of the team, bearing a message that’d be considered outright hateful by a large number of fans. If I were a team owner, I wouldn’t want that shitstorm on my hands. And I think that brings me to how I’d answer Bricker’s question. All political speech is not equal, and having a blanket policy that prohibits employees from saying or doing anything controversial would be a nightmare. However, I’d want to be able to deal with douchebags on an individual basis. And that’s how things are right now, so that’s cool. The delegate could have written a letter saying “I don’t think your players should support same sex marriage. Please punish this guy.” But he knew that wouldn’t go over well, so instead he tried to re-frame the debate to one about political speech in general, which was weaselly of him. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/55 "2012-09-07T15:36:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Right. And if you extend this principle, then how many other people might be blocked from expressing their political opinions? True… but I think the principle gets weak as you extend it. Most people don’t have the bully pulpit of a Ravens starting position. Most people don’t gain significant attention from their support of various causes. I’d be at least somewhat sympathetic to an argument that said, “As long as he’s wearing purple and giving away tickets to my games, he’s representing me,” but recognizing that this reasoning doesn’t apply tot he vast majority of the American public. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/56 "2012-09-07T15:42:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > True… but I think the principle gets weak as you extend it. Most people don’t have the bully pulpit of a Ravens starting position. Most people don’t gain significant attention from their support of various causes. I’d be at least somewhat sympathetic to an argument that said, “As long as he’s wearing purple and giving away tickets to my games, he’s representing me,” but recognizing that this reasoning doesn’t apply tot he vast majority of the American public. Okay, I can buy that. If you’re in uniform, there’s an implication of speaking for the organization. There’s an explicit reference to the employer if you’re wearing a jersey and giving away your employer’s promotional material. How would you apply this to the Chik-Fil-A drive through guy? Should he have been fired? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/57 "2012-09-07T15:55:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Okay, I can buy that. If you’re in uniform, there’s an implication of speaking for the organization. There’s an explicit reference to the employer if you’re wearing a jersey and giving away your employer’s promotional material. > > How would you apply this to the Chik-Fil-A drive through guy? Should he have been fired? Well, he became a public figure when his video went viral, which is a very possible outcome of posting your video on Youtube. But he didn’t identify his employer or represent himself as anything other than a private citizen. It’s a close question, which is really the reason I posted this thread… reading good pro and con arguments helps me decide where I stand. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/58 "2012-09-07T15:58:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, he became a public figure when his video went viral, which is a very possible outcome of posting your video on Youtube. But he didn’t identify his employer or represent himself as anything other than a private citizen. But in today’s world, if you become any kind of internet celebrity, it might be foreseeable for your employer to be identified by … netizens … resulting perhaps in embarrassment. > [@](#): > > It’s a close question, which is really the reason I posted this thread… reading good pro and con arguments helps me decide where I stand. I guess we’re in the same boat. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/59 "2012-09-07T16:32:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > (Obviously Toys for Tots is utterly non-controversial). Say’s you. Toy’s for Tots indoctrinates underprivileged children into a culture of socialism. I even hear it’s sometimes at tax payer expense, paying trained soldiers to stoop to the level of delivery men! My point being how do you define controversial? If the NFL is going to impose limits on what their players can do or say based on what some minority of people find controversial wouldn’t that limit the players to only speaking a very short list of approved quotes. As to what the owner should do with the letter, he should throw it out with the rest of his daily hate mail. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939/60 "2012-09-07T16:39:35Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > My point being how do you define controversial? If the NFL is going to impose limits on what their players can do or say based on what some minority of people find controversial wouldn’t that limit the players to only speaking a very short list of approved quotes. Well, I suppose the point is where to draw the line. I’m sure that given the opportunity, the NFL would come up with a reasonably rational policy on what it considers controversial and what it doesn’t. Right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-players-should-express-no-opinion-on-same-sex-marriage/633939.md?page=4)