# Football Poll for Americans **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 28, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109 "2005-11-28T21:37:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/1 "2005-11-28T21:37:58Z")
(Canadians are excluded from this poll because this play just happened in the Grey Cup game last night, so they’ll know the answer) Here’s the play: It’s first and 10. The quarterback throws the ball forward, but a defensive lineman bats the ball right back into the quarterback’s hands. The quarterback catches the ball, and then spots an open reciever in the end zone and throws the ball for a touchdown. What’s the call? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/2 "2005-11-28T21:42:19Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > (Canadians are excluded from this poll because this play just happened in the Grey Cup game last night, so they’ll know the answer) > > Here’s the play: > It’s first and 10. The quarterback throws the ball forward, but a defensive lineman bats the ball right back into the quarterback’s hands. The quarterback catches the ball, and then spots an open reciever in the end zone and throws the ball for a touchdown. > > What’s the call? It’s a penalty (and no touchdown), because it’s an illegal second forward pass. What do I win? ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/3 "2005-11-28T22:28:46Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > (Canadians are excluded from this poll because this play just happened in the Grey Cup game last night, so they’ll know the answer) > > Here’s the play: > It’s first and 10. The quarterback throws the ball forward, but a defensive lineman bats the ball right back into the quarterback’s hands. The quarterback catches the ball, and then spots an open reciever in the end zone and throws the ball for a touchdown. > > What’s the call? Without reading any of the responses, that’s an illegal forward pass. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/4 "2005-11-28T22:32:45Z")
It’s not a poll topic. There is a specific rule against this. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/5 "2005-11-28T22:35:51Z")
Fine, without reading _the_ response. It’s the same thing as if any other receiver caught the ball and then threw it again. ---
**Author:** ![chaparralv8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@chaparralv8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaparralv8)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/6 "2005-11-28T22:46:50Z")
Nope. The call is Touchdown. The Quarterback throws a legal pass. It is then momentarily intercepted by the Defensive Lineman and then fumbled by said Defensive Lineman. The ball is recovered by the Quarterback who throws a legal forward pass - as he’s behind the line of scrimmage - to the Receiver. Touchdown. If this play is illegal, so is a flea-flicker. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/7 "2005-11-28T22:57:00Z")
> [@chaparralv8](#): > > Nope. The call is Touchdown. The Quarterback throws a legal pass. It is then momentarily intercepted by the Defensive Lineman and then fumbled by said Defensive Lineman. The ball is recovered by the Quarterback who throws a legal forward pass - as he’s behind the line of scrimmage - to the Receiver. Touchdown. If this play is illegal, so is a flea-flicker. I’m guessing this might be legal in Canadian football, but not here. Deflection /= interception + fumble. The defensive lineman needs to have possession of the ball for that to be the case. If the lineman caught it, I think a second pass would be okay because of the change of possession. A flea-flicker is different because the ball is intially thrown backward. You cannot throw two _forward_ passes in the same play in American football. The one possible exception, and I’m still skeptical of this one, would be if the defensive player batted the ball before it crossed the line of scrimmage. Even then I don’t think the QB can throw it again, but I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/8 "2005-11-28T23:08:58Z")
If you say there’s a rule against it, then ok. Can you cite it? My WAG is that so long as the ball never crosses the line of scrimmage, you can pass it any ol’ which way. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/9 "2005-11-28T23:14:06Z")
[The NFL rule on the subject…](http://www.nfl.com/news/rulesdigest.html)2. An offensive team may make only one forward pass during each play from scrimmage (Loss of 5 yards). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/10 "2005-11-28T23:18:24Z")
You can’t throw a forward pass after a turnover. That’s also an illegal forward pass. Once the ball is thrown forward legally, there cannot be another forward pass during the current play; that is, until the ball id s dead and reset by the officials. [cite](http://www.nfl.com/fans/rules/forwardpass) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/11 "2005-11-28T23:23:52Z")
Arr, and I’ve had the cite in time, too, if my Internet Explorer hadn’t crashed! So I think we can say this is illegal in American football. Is the rule different in Canada? I couldn’t find a cite that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/12 "2005-11-29T00:03:25Z")
The rule is indeed the same in the CFL, although it was a 10 yard penalty. The reason I asked the question was that the quarterback involved in the play admitted afterwards that he had no idea that what he’d done was illegal, and I was rather surprised that he didn’t know that. I wanted to get some idea of how well fans knew the rule, to see if perhaps it wasn’t so bad that the QB didn’t know. For those who are curious, the play was quite a critical one. It happened in overtime with the Alouettes trailing by a field goal(the CFL uses an overtime format similar to US college football – each team gets to start a drive from their opponent’s 35-yard line, and whoever leads after one round wins the game). The 10-yard penalty all but pushed the Als out of field-goal range, and they were way out of range after an incomplete pass followed by a sack on the second down. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Big\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Big\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Big_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/13 "2005-11-29T01:05:55Z")
Can’t throw two forward passes. trivia: Q - Who’d Brett Favre complete his first pass to?? A - Brett Favre. Just like the example above, except he didn’t throw the second pass. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/14 "2005-11-29T01:13:22Z")
> [@chaparralv8](#): > > Nope. The call is Touchdown. The Quarterback throws a legal pass. It is then momentarily intercepted by the Defensive Lineman and then fumbled by said Defensive Lineman. The ball is recovered by the Quarterback who throws a legal forward pass - as he’s behind the line of scrimmage - to the Receiver. Touchdown. If this play is illegal, so is a flea-flicker. A flea-flicker involves a lateral pass: the running back takes the handoff and goes wide, then passes back to the QB. You can have as many laterals as you want during a play. The fact that the ball is tossed overhand like a forward pass doesn’t make it one: a forward pass goes forward; a lateral goes backward or horizontally. The method of throwing the pass has no bearing; it’s the relative position of the thrower and the receiver that counts. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/15 "2005-11-29T01:50:51Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The fact that the ball is tossed overhand like a forward pass doesn’t make it one: a forward pass goes forward; a lateral goes backward or horizontally. The method of throwing the pass has no bearing; it’s the relative position of the thrower and the receiver that counts. That reminds me of a play that was reviewed a couple of years ago - it may have even been a playoff game. I don’t remember all the details, but I think that it was Steve McNair throwing a lateral where the player he threw the ball to was phyically ahead of where McNair was when he threw it. However the receiver reached back and caught the ball where the ball was horizontal from the QB. I don’t even remember the final ruling. On review, I really hope that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/16 "2005-11-29T02:09:59Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > That reminds me of a play that was reviewed a couple of years ago - it may have even been a playoff game. I don’t remember all the details, but I think that it was Steve McNair throwing a lateral where the player he threw the ball to was phyically ahead of where McNair was when he threw it. However the receiver reached back and caught the ball where the ball was horizontal from the QB. > I don’t even remember the final ruling. > > On review, I really hope that makes sense. You might be thinking of the [Music City Miracle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_City_Miracle); the last play of one of the AFC Wildcard playoff games involving two laterals, the second of which was arguably a forward pass. The call on the field was that it was legal, and replay analysis reaffirmed the call. Result: touchdown, and a last second win for the Titans, who went on to lose the Superbowl by 1 yard. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/17 "2005-11-29T04:36:49Z")
I will go to my grave insisting that the Music City Screwjob was an illegal forward pass and the product of collusion, bribery, and any other legal word of which I can think that means “hosing.” ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/18 "2005-11-29T04:45:22Z")
I didn’t know this myself, until I saw it happen in Super Bowl IX. The Pittsburgh Steelers had completely shut down the Minnesota Vikings all day. Vikings quarterback Fran Tarkenton couldn’t complete any deep passes. Late in the game, he threw a pass, and it was batted down by a lineman (I think it was Dwight White, but don’t hold me to that). The batted ball went back to Tarkenton, who spotted a wide open receiver downfield, and completed his only deep pass of the game. I was excited. Play by play man Curt Gowdy was excited. Only color man Don Meredith stated repeatedly “No good. No good. You can’t do that.” Alas, Meredith was right. NFL rules say there can be only one forward pass per play. so the completion didn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/19 "2005-11-29T14:14:45Z")
> [@chaparralv8](#): > > Nope. The call is Touchdown. The Quarterback throws a legal pass. It is then momentarily intercepted by the Defensive Lineman and then fumbled by said Defensive Lineman. No. The OP specified that the lineman \*batted \* the ball. He would have had to gain control for it to be an interception. If it had hit the ground before the QB got it back, that would have been a simple incompletion and end of play. An interception/fumble/recovery by the original team does happen from time to time (hey, if the guy had good hands, he’d be on offense), and results in a new first down for the original offense because of the change of possession - even if it moves the chains well \*back \* from their previous spot. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/20 "2005-11-29T14:52:30Z")
Brad Johnson caught his own deflected pass and ran it in from the 3-yard-line for a touchdown for Minnesota in 1997, thereby gaining credit for a touchdown pass and a touchdown receiving on the same play. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109.md?page=2)