# Football Poll for Americans **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 28, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109 "2005-11-28T21:37:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/21 "2005-11-29T16:52:56Z")
> [@chaparralv8](#): > > Nope. The call is Touchdown. The Quarterback throws a legal pass. It is then momentarily intercepted by the Defensive Lineman and then fumbled by said Defensive Lineman. The ball is recovered by the Quarterback who throws a legal forward pass - as he’s behind the line of scrimmage - to the Receiver. Touchdown. If this play is illegal, so is a flea-flicker. If that were true, then when the ball was batted down and hits the turf, it would be a live ball. That’s not the case. An interception is just like any other catch – you must demonstrate control of the ball. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/22 "2005-11-29T17:07:07Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > The rule is indeed the same in the CFL, although it was a 10 yard penalty. The reason I asked the question was that the quarterback involved in the play admitted afterwards that he had no idea that what he’d done was illegal, and I was rather surprised that he didn’t know that. I wanted to get some idea of how well fans knew the rule, to see if perhaps it wasn’t so bad that the QB didn’t know. I know the rule, and definitely some QBs do. The smart ones will usually just bat the ball to the ground when it comes back to them. The less smart ones will catch it and try to run with it, and ALWAYS lose yardage. I saw this this week, but I can’t remember where. Did it happen in Detroit? The dumb ones will try to throw it forward again. I’ve never seen this, though, to the best of my recollection. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/23 "2005-11-29T20:54:45Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > The less smart ones will catch it and try to run with it, and ALWAYS lose yardage. I saw this this week, but I can’t remember where. Did it happen in Detroit? Chris Simms caught his own pass for Tampa Bay, versus the Bears last Sunday, and lost three yards. I imagine that the vast majority of self-caught passes lose yardage, but there’s always the case of Brad Johnson (see above). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Big\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Big\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Big_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/24 "2005-11-29T22:34:25Z")
Similarly…I remember way back in 1980 the Pack used to beat the Bears with Chester Marcol kicking late field goals–happened often. So they play again, it goes overtime, Packers driving down the field and set up for a winning field goal. Bears come thru finally, Alan Page blocks it. It flies in the air right into Marcols hands. He ‘runs’ like he’s drunk 25 yards into the endzone. Packers win, again. So sweet. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/25 "2005-11-30T04:17:25Z")
The definition of a forward pass is that the arm _begins_ a forward motion relative to the line of scrimmage. This very strict definition leads to some seemingly odd but logically consistent rulings. The most famous, of course, is the tuck rule. Even though the QB may decide _mid-throw_ to pull the ball back and tuck it away, the very fact that he began his throwing motion makes it a forward pass attempt, which is why it was an incomplete pass in the Raiders Patriots game, and also in that Redskins game earlier this season. Also of note is that it doesn’t matter a whit whether the ball goes forward or backward. A few weeks back Eli Manning started a forward throwing motion, but his arm got hit before his release and the ball sailed _clearly_ backwards. (This was against the Viking, IIRC.) Shockey stopped short of the ball clapping hi hands like a mental patient, while the defense scooped up the ball and started running. Shockey ended up being correct; because the throw _began_ with a forward motion, it was a forward pass, regardless if it went forward, backward or sideways. Them’s the rules. Now, before you take me to task, I heard this during the NFL Network’s coachspeak show segment where they interview the head of officiating, and he explains all the obscure rulings of that week. Everything I’ve typed here is pretty much exactly how he explained it. Of course the whole time I kept asking myself, “So, uh, what about a pump fake?”, but alas, it is not an interactive show. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/26 "2005-11-30T04:20:20Z")
Sorry, I forgot my point. So back to the Music City Miracle, it simply _does not matter_ where the ball landed. The _only_ thing that matters is whether the guy’s throwing motion _began_ forward or backwards. IMO, it clearly began as a lateral, and only the spin or wind or whatever caused it to fade forward a little bit. Therefore, it was a lateral. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/27 "2005-11-30T05:37:57Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Of course the whole time I kept asking myself, “So, uh, what about a pump fake?”, but alas, it is not an interactive show. Maybe the forward motion of the ball in the QB’s hand qualifies it as a forward pass _as soon as the ball leaves his hand_. A pump fake that the QB lost his grip on and that falls to the ground would be an incomplete pass and not a fumble, but it isn’t a pass until the ball is out of his control. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/28 "2005-11-30T05:46:21Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Maybe the forward motion of the ball in the QB’s hand qualifies it as a forward pass _as soon as the ball leaves his hand_. A pump fake that the QB lost his grip on and that falls to the ground would be an incomplete pass and not a fumble, but it isn’t a pass until the ball is out of his control. Possibly. After all, the tuck rule is what it is by virtue of the ball being fumbled, which meets your criteria. Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/29 "2005-11-30T09:42:17Z")
Q. Who caught the very first pass thrown by Brett Favre in his NFL debut? Hint: He’s a future Hall of Famer and he never caught another pass in his career. Brett Favre did. His NFL debut was October 27, 1991, Atlanta Falcons vs. LA Rams. His first pass was deflected by a defender and he caught his own pass an ran with the ball. Incidentally, [here is the game recap](http://members.tripod.com/~kerrycfan/97summaries/97vikings.html) when Brad Johnson not only caught his own pass on a deflection, but he took it in for a touchdown. How often have QBs at any level thrown a TD pass to themselves? Fantasy Football players were having siezures after this one… ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/30 "2005-11-30T15:14:04Z")
I’m not a football fan, but from the dregs of my memory of the rules, I think that play would be flagged. The actions of the defensive lineman would be considered a fumble, the QB catching the ball would be a recovery and we’re good up to that point. But when the QB passes again, that’s illegal because it’s a forward pass and not a lateral. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109/31 "2005-11-30T20:57:26Z")
> [@Freddy the Pig](#): > > Brad Johnson caught his own deflected pass and ran it in from the 3-yard-line for a touchdown for Minnesota in 1997, thereby gaining credit for a touchdown pass and a touchdown receiving on the same play. Wow, think of the fantasy points! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-poll-for-americans/333109.md?page=1)