# Football Q: Most yards to go for a first down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 23, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850 "2003-11-23T16:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/21 "2003-11-24T04:05:47Z")
Anecdote: 4th and 44. Yes, the converted. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/22 "2003-11-24T04:56:53Z")
Just to clarify, with respect to the limiting caseā€“when the ball is in between yard lines, it is advanced to the next yard for statistical purposes (both pro and college). So the worst possible situation is to be on your own 1-yard line, with 99 yards to go. If the ball were just past your own goal line, this would be described by the announcers as ā€œ3rd and a long 99!ā€ šŸ˜ƒ Assuming that the CFL follows the same principle, they would have a 109-yard maximum. ---
**Author:** ![doverpro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@doverpro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doverpro)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/23 "2003-11-24T05:57:34Z")
Letā€™s seeā€¦according to the OP, a first down is to be gained. That means no first-and-goal, so the closest that the ball could start from would be the eleven, but could be just outside the 10. Then some whack series of penalties keeps backing up the ball until the ball is finally placed on the one-yard line. It is now first-and-98. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/24 "2003-11-24T06:00:21Z")
Actually, if you are going to use 1st and a number, the limit is 1st and 98. You canā€™t be 1st and 99. You can only be as far back as your own yard line. If if it were 1st and 99, the line to gain would be the goal line and it would just be 1st and Goal. So, if youā€™re 1st and 10 at your opponents 11, you would need a sequence like this: 15-yard penalty: 1st and 25 at the +26 15-yard penalty: 1st and 40 at the +41 15-yard penalty: 1st and 55 at the -44 15-yard penalty: 1st and 70 at the -29 Now it gets tricky. If you get a 15 yard penalty inside your 30, then it becomes half the distance. So letā€™s do it this way" 10-yard penalty: 1st and 80 at the -19 5-yard penalty: 1st and 85 at the -14 5-yard penalty: 1st and 90 at the -9 Now any penalty becomes half the distance, so you will have to go -9, -5, -3, -1 (more or less) You will then have a 1st and 98. So Iā€™m counting 10 penalties. ---
**Author:** ![Quack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e99b99/32.png) [@Quack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quack)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/25 "2003-11-24T06:12:58Z")
**GMRyujin** , I believe it got to 3rd and 36 after a false start penalty. Amazing they called any penalties in Dallasā€™ favor todayā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/26 "2003-11-24T06:13:18Z")
A little football history trivia: when the idea of downs was first introduced, a team got a first down by gaining ten yards or losing five yards. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/27 "2003-11-24T07:43:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > \*\*A little football history trivia: when the idea of downs was first introduced, a team got a first down by gaining ten yards or losing five yards. \*\* Huh? Most sources I find say that when downs were introduced, there were three downs to make five yards. (1882). It went to 10 yards in 1905 and finally four downs to make 10 yards in 1912. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/28 "2003-11-24T11:19:11Z")
I was just going to post that the longest possibleis first and 98, not 99. First and 99 would be saying first and goal, not the same thing. However, **doverpro** and **BobT** beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![nineiron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e56c9b/32.png) [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/29 "2003-11-24T14:10:15Z")
One thing is sure, though. If it ever gets to third-and-25 or more, the announcers will say, without a doubt, ā€œI donā€™t think thereā€™s a play in the playbook for third-and-25.ā€ Then they laugh like itā€™s the funniest, most original thing ever. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/30 "2003-11-24T15:32:47Z")
**NoClueBoy** , your memory is accurate - there were 2 changes of possession on that play, creating an automatic first down regardless of the previous line of scrimmage. Also, the line of scrimmage is at the nose of the ball. Since the tail of the ball has to be outside the goal line (or else itā€™s a safety, touchdown, or touchback), and the ball is between 11 and 11.25 inches long, the longest possible play is 100 yards minus 11 inches minus epsilon. While weā€™re sharing anecdotes, in a high school game I saw last year, the visitors ran a running play at third and goal from the 3, and got called for holding (10 yards). The kid who did it bitched at the ref and got 15 more for unsportsmanlike conduct. Another kid on the bench bitched at the ref for _that_, flag, 15 more before the coach got everyone reminded that a playerā€™s second UC penalty is an automatic ejection and suspension from the next game, too. ā€œThird and goal from the 43ā€ is a hilarious thing to hear over the PA - you shoulda been there. (They punted, btw). ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/31 "2003-11-24T15:57:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nineiron \* > \*\*One thing is sure, though. If it ever gets to third-and-25 or more, the announcers will say, without a doubt, ā€œI donā€™t think thereā€™s a play in the playbook for third-and-25.ā€ Then they laugh like itā€™s the funniest, most original thing ever. \*\* And then the team will give up, run a draw play for 2 yards, and punt, while the announcer pontificates on how ā€œPunting is the only thing you can do in that situation.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![swansont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5fc32e/32.png) [@swansont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swansont)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/32 "2003-11-24T16:03:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by asomihite \* > I just did a search for this, but to no avail. I think the most yards needed for a first down in the NFL might have been the result of a game in which Bob Griese (while trying to elude a pass rush) scrambled and kept running back in what ended up being the all-time greatest loss of yards in a single play. Of course I unfortunately canā€™t remember how many yards this was. I think youā€™re referring to a play in SB VI against the Cowboys. It was a 29-yard loss. That may ā€œonlyā€ be a super bowl record, though. A quick search only turned up nothing more definitive. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/33 "2003-11-24T16:04:34Z")
Ahā€¦, I get it. Even if the ball is several ball lengths inside the opponentā€™s eleven yard line, resulting in needing to get the point of the ball several ball lengths inside the one for a first down, itā€™s still officially listed as ā€œ1st and 10 on the 11.ā€ And if the minimum to get the 1st is gained, it would officially be called as ā€œ1st and Goal on the 1.ā€ But the announcers would say, ā€œInside the 1,ā€ or ā€œInside the 11.ā€ Right? Because the official wording doesnā€™t allow for yard fractionsā€¦? Sounds ggod to me. Iā€™m glad someone (or two) clued us in on that. Makes complete sense. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/34 "2003-11-24T16:18:53Z")
Witness, Dopers, the course of great sports minds hashing out a problem that others did not even know existed! According to **Beagle** ā€™s cite from Fayetteville Onlineā€™s sports Answer Man, the record for the 21st century belongs to the Philadelphia Eagles: 2nd and 48 from their own 16 yard line. Opponent is not specified. (My Vols tied for 6th in the roll of infamy with a 3rd and 39 vs. Miami this year. They went on to win that game.) Props to **Beagle** for his mad Google skillz. So now we have a number to beat. Does anyone have any documented situations worse than the Eagles 2nd and 48? ---
**Author:** ![aerodave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f08c70/32.png) [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/35 "2003-11-24T20:43:38Z")
Beholdā€¦a very long first down. Very recently, I might add. Two Saturdays ago, my beloved WVU Mountaineers were battling the hated Pitt Panthers in the 96th Backyard Brawl. Pitt had a bad time with penalties during the 3rd quarter, and here is a quick [play-by-play](http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/playbyplay/NCAAF_20031115_PITT@WV) of part of that quarter: > [@](#): > > Pittsburgh Panthers at 10:27 > 1-20-PITT45 (10:27) Jawan Walker rushed for 3 yards. PITT was penalized 10 yards. > 1-17-PITT38 (10:27) PITT was penalized 10 yards. > 1-27-PITT28 (9:56) PITT was penalized 5 yards. > 1-32-PITT23 So they ended up **1st and 32** before they ever got to 2nd down. Thatā€™s probably not a record, but itā€™s pretty respectable. Youā€™re talking about first down, and needing a full third of the field to get another. Sucks to be them. Iā€™ve seen 3rd and 20- or 30-something often enough. But 1st and 32?! I had to laugh. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/36 "2003-11-24T21:28:28Z")
Well, Googling ā€œthird and 49ā€, ā€œthird and 50ā€ etc, etc I got the following: [First and 48](http://www.salisburypost.com/2000nov/110500i.htm) by Mars Hill College vs. Catawba, 11/4/00. [First and 43](http://osubeavers.ocsn.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/112298aaa.html) by Oregon vs. Oregon St, 11/20/98. [Second and 61](http://www.madison.com/captimes/sports/preps/57612.php) during a Wisconsin(?) high school game. [Third and 67](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/highschool/sfl-1ardp22nov22,0,5606451.story?coll=sfla-highschool-headlines) during a Florida high school football game. [Third and 57](http://www.sptimes.com/News/100100/Sports/Bullied.shtml) by the Florida Gators vs. Mississippi State, 9/30/00. [Fourth and 69](http://www.sptimes.com/News/090200/Sports/Tarpon_Springs_sloshe.shtml) during another Florida high school football game. [Fourth and 63](http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/football/cowboys/classic/0210txstadopens.htm) by the Patriots vs. Cowboys, 10/23/71. This isnā€™t very comprehensive, but it does establish numbers to beat. ---
**Author:** ![Jake4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jake4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake4)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/37 "2003-11-24T22:02:48Z")
Commendable search, **zut**. Good job. ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/38 "2003-11-24T22:17:20Z")
That is a nice find **zut** , and for now I am going to accept 4th and 63 as the longest yardage situation in a professional football game, N.E. Pats v. Dallas Cowboys, October 23, 1971. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/39 "2003-11-24T23:11:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*Ahā€¦, I get it. Even if the ball is several ball lengths inside the opponentā€™s eleven yard line, resulting in needing to get the point of the ball several ball lengths inside the one for a first down, itā€™s still officially listed as ā€œ1st and 10 on the 11.ā€ And if the minimum to get the 1st is gained, it would officially be called as ā€œ1st and Goal on the 1.ā€ But the announcers would say, ā€œInside the 1,ā€ or ā€œInside the 11.ā€ > > Right? Because the official wording doesnā€™t allow for yard fractionsā€¦? Sounds ggod to me. Iā€™m glad someone (or two) clued us in on that. Makes complete sense. \*\* When it comes to the field, there are only integers in football. The rule of thumb is that the yard ā€œlineā€ the ball is on is the last one that the ball has completely passed over. EXCEPT, in situations where the ball has to be on another yard line so the math can add up. Such as the ball being on the 11 yard line even though itā€™s just an inch outside the 10. If it were an inch outside the 20, it would be on the 20. But if itā€™s an inch outside the 10, itā€™s on the 11. And there are situations where you put the ball on the ā€œwrongā€ yard line in cases where itā€™s ā€œinchesā€ to go. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2003, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850/40 "2003-11-25T01:01:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\*Actually, if you are going to use 1st and a number, the limit is 1st and 98. You canā€™t be 1st and 99. You can only be as far back as your own yard line. If if it were 1st and 99, the line to gain would be the goal line and it would just be 1st and Goal. > \*\* But surely, a long goal-to-go situation is within the spirit of the OP. And in fact, scoring a touchdown via goal-to-go counts as a statistical first down in pro football, although not in college. If the most yards to gain happened to occur in a goal-to-go series, I would certainly accept that as the ā€œmost yards ever required for a first downā€. Ergo, 99 is a possibility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-q-most-yards-to-go-for-a-first-down/214850.md?page=3)