# Football: Time of possession definition **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 7, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304 "2013-01-07T01:59:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/1 "2013-01-07T01:59:00Z")
I’ve looked on line but can’t find this. In American football, how, precisely, is time of possession defined? Most plays “belong” to one side or the other so that’s easy, but not all do. When team B intercepts or recovers a fumble when does their TOP start, at the time of interception or the start of the next play? When team B returns a punt or kickoff, does TOP start when the ball is kicked, caught, or the next play. Does it matter if the kick is an onside kick? (Though come to think of it I guess the clock doesn’t start on a kickoff until the ball is touched and not at all if it’s a touch back.) What if a punt is simply allowed to roll until it stops, when does the receiving team’s TOP start? Inquiring minds and all that… ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/2 "2013-01-07T02:03:11Z")
And if TOP count changes with an interception or fumble, how do they handle a turnover that is overturned on review? I’d assume they give all the time of that play back to the offense? Any other tricky ones I’ve forgotten? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/3 "2013-01-07T02:19:40Z")
I don’t know the exact answer, but I’m pretty sure it’s moot. The difference in TOP between when a guy catches a punt or an interception to when he’s tackled is trivial. Even on a 99 yard return that’s only 11 seconds or so. The vast majority of the time elapsed during a teams possession is jogging back to or standing in the huddle. If I had to hazard a guess, I’d say that TOP is officially calculated at the start of the ensuing play after a turnover/punt. Since the time on the clock is stopped and recorded at that time it becomes accurate and reliable to report on programmatically. The real difference balances out over a game because teams generally field a similar number of punts and any discrepancy is statistically meaningless when total TOP is around 30 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/4 "2013-01-07T04:32:38Z")
A change of possession occurs when the defense secures possession of the ball (Section 35 Article 3). I assume that starts the clock going for that team. So for example on a punt, a team’s time of possession starts when they secure possession of the kick (so a muff does NOT stop the clock) or when the play is called dead by illegal touch or when the ball stop moving or goes out-of-bounds. On a turnover like a fumble or an interception, the time of possession starts when the turnover is made. ---
**Author:** ![Jamicat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jamicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamicat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/5 "2013-01-07T05:56:28Z")
Clock is either one side or the other, no inbetweens. I didn’t peer to far into it… I would gather that from as soon as player grabs the Kickoff until the other team’s Offense hikes the ball on first down or receives a Punt, the clock time goes to the first team, and then there so on…in any case whistles blow, play stops and clock switches sides. > [@](#): > > Timing in Final Two Minutes of Each Half… > > ``` > On kickoff, clock does not start until the ball has been legally touched by player of either team in the field of play. (In all other cases, clock starts with kickoff.) > > ``` [http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/timingfinal](http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/timingfinal) ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/6 "2013-01-07T06:00:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > A change of possession occurs when the defense secures possession of the ball (Section 35 Article 3). I assume that starts the clock going for that team. So for example on a punt, a team’s time of possession starts when they secure possession of the kick (so a muff does NOT stop the clock) or when the play is called dead by illegal touch or when the ball stop moving or goes out-of-bounds. On a turnover like a fumble or an interception, the time of possession starts when the turnover is made. I don’t believe there is any such “clock” that is being turned on and off when a ball is touched/recovered. Stats Inc may have some guy doing this but standard NFL stadiums/scorekeepers do not. An NFL box score only records the start and end of drives, not the time of each play, and I’d be surprised if these times weren’t reflecting the first offensive snap to the last. You’ll notice [here](http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=330105034) and [here](http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330105034&period=2) that there’s no Bengals possession associated with the Leon Hall Pick-6 in the 2nd Quarter. That said when you add up those drive chart TOP totals they fall short of the box score total, probably because of excluded kick off returns. It’s unclear if that INT return is in there or not. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/7 "2013-01-07T06:23:43Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I don’t believe there is any such “clock” that is being turned on and off when a ball is touched/recovered. Stats Inc may have some guy doing this but standard NFL stadiums/scorekeepers do not. An NFL box score only records the start and end of drives, not the time of each play, and I’d be surprised if these times weren’t reflecting the first offensive snap to the last. > > You’ll notice [here](http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=330105034) and [here](http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=330105034&period=2) that there’s no Bengals possession associated with the Leon Hall Pick-6 in the 2nd Quarter. > > That said when you add up those drive chart TOP totals they fall short of the box score total, probably because of excluded kick off returns. It’s unclear if that INT return is in there or not. I think you are correct. Since a change of possession stops the clock when the play concludes, and it would be extremely rare for a play to continue for more than 10 seconds after that, I would assume that all the time in that play would still go to the team that originally had possession. Since the officials do make any note of the time of a turnover, any other measurement would always be based on someone’s opinion of when the change of possession occurred, it couldn’t be an official time. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/8 "2013-01-07T23:23:20Z")
I never said Time of Possession was an official stat. I always assumed it was unofficial. My point was let’s say I am recording time of possession for ESPN at the Texans/Bengals game. My Texans watch is running when the play starts. When the Bengals intercept the ball I immediately stop that watch and start the Bengals watch running, only stopping it when the play ends (the touchdown). ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/9 "2013-01-07T23:31:12Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I never said Time of Possession was an official stat. I always assumed it was unofficial. My point was let’s say I am recording time of possession for ESPN at the Texans/Bengals game. My Texans watch is running when the play starts. When the Bengals intercept the ball I immediately stop that watch and start the Bengals watch running, only stopping it when the play ends (the touchdown). A chess clock would be perfect for that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/10 "2013-01-08T01:07:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I never said Time of Possession was an official stat. I always assumed it was unofficial. I actually think that it **is** an official stat. Here’s a page from [NFL.com](http://NFL.com), showing NFL team offensive stats for the 2012 season: > **[NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League](https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/)** > > The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more. Note that the fourth column from the right side is “ToP/G”…or, Time of Possession Per Game. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/11 "2013-01-08T05:24:41Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I actually think that it **is** an official stat. Yup, that’s my point. **SaintCad** might be keeping time the way he described but no one else does it that way officially and it’s not really the answer the OP seems to be looking for. When CBS puts the TOP stat up on the screen they are using the official stat and I think that one is play-to-play, not when a ball is actually possessed. The NFL definition defines possession a certain way with respect to who controls a ball, but that’s important only for deciding if a ball is recovered or caught etc. I haven’t seen a NFL definition for _Time of possession_. There’s not enough info in the box score to deduct conclusively how the official stat is calculated on punts and turnovers. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/12 "2013-01-08T16:42:24Z")
Time of possession is very much an official statistic. When possession changes during a scrimmage play (whether by punt, fumble, interception, or other), all TOP during the play is credited to the team which had possession at the beginning of the play. On kickoffs, all TOP is credited to whichever team first gains possession of the ball. ([pdf cite](http://www.nflgsis.com/gsis/documentation/stadiumguides/guide_for_statisticians.pdf)–this guide is 4 years old but this hasn’t changed in eons.) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/13 "2013-01-08T17:03:19Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Time of possession is very much an official statistic. When possession changes during a scrimmage play (whether by punt, fumble, interception, or other), all TOP during the play is credited to the team which had possession at the beginning of the play. On kickoffs, all TOP is credited to whichever team first gains possession of the ball. ([pdf cite](http://www.nflgsis.com/gsis/documentation/stadiumguides/guide_for_statisticians.pdf)–this guide is 4 years old but this hasn’t changed in eons.) I was looking for a document like that. Congrats on your search skills. This was the only thing that made sense. The official times are all measured down to down and there wouldn’t be any other official timing to base TOP on. And it just wouldn’t change the stats by more than a few seconds if there was some way to establish a precise time possession changed, which there isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/14 "2013-01-08T17:43:12Z")
Here is how the NCAA does it, taken verbatim from the 2011 NCAA Footaball Statisticians Manual: (“Team A” is the team with the ball at the start of the play) > [@](#): > > TIME OF POSSESSION—Time of possession is computed from the first play initiated by Team A from the line of scrimmage until a scoring play is made or loss of possession occurs. > After a change of possession (e.g., a fumble, interception or punt), consider Team A in possession until the ball next is declared dead. In order to account for 60 minutes, start the receiving team’s time of possession at the time of kickoff. > On all other returns (i.e., “transition time”—punt returns, blocked punts, blocked field goal attempts, fumble returns and interceptions, including scoring plays), start ball possession at the start of the next scrimmage play. In other words, time of possession, at least in college, is calculated based on the assumption that the receiving team had possession for the entire play on a kickoff, even if it is an onside kick recovered by the kicking team, and the offense had possession for the entire play on all other plays, even if there was something like a 99-yard punt return where the defense would have had the ball for at least 10 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/15 "2013-01-08T22:20:55Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Time of possession is very much an official statistic. When possession changes during a scrimmage play (whether by punt, fumble, interception, or other), all TOP during the play is credited to the team which had possession at the beginning of the play. On kickoffs, all TOP is credited to whichever team first gains possession of the ball. ([pdf cite](http://www.nflgsis.com/gsis/documentation/stadiumguides/guide_for_statisticians.pdf)–this guide is 4 years old but this hasn’t changed in eons.) > [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Here is how the NCAA does it, taken verbatim from the 2011 NCAA Footaball Statisticians Manual: > (“Team A” is the team with the ball at the start of the play) > > In other words, time of possession, at least in college, is calculated based on the assumption that the receiving team had possession for the entire play on a kickoff, even if it is an onside kick recovered by the kicking team, and the offense had possession for the entire play on all other plays, even if there was something like a 99-yard punt return where the defense would have had the ball for at least 10 seconds. Now that’s some excellent work right there. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/16 "2013-01-09T03:31:14Z")
Thanks all, it looks like there is just one discrepancy to clear up > [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > On kickoffs, all TOP is credited to whichever team first gains possession of the ball. ([pdf cite](http://www.nflgsis.com/gsis/documentation/stadiumguides/guide_for_statisticians.pdf) and from That Don Guy: “In other words, time of possession, at least in college, is calculated based on the assumption that the receiving team had possession for the entire play on a kickoff, even if it is an onside kick recovered by the kicking team.” Both claim to be NCAA rules. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/football-time-of-possession-definition/646304/17 "2013-01-09T03:35:11Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Thanks all, it looks like there is just one discrepancy to clear up > > and from That Don Guy: “In other words, time of possession, at least in college, is calculated based on the assumption that the receiving team had possession for the entire play on a kickoff, even if it is an onside kick recovered by the kicking team.” > > Both claim to be NCAA rules. Freddy’s cite is the NFL rules.