# For anti-Trump conservatives, there is no good election outcome in 2020 either way **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 18, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626 "2020-07-18T00:27:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/21 "2020-07-19T00:04:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There doesn’t seem much point in the Republican Party repudiating Donald Trump if their goal is only to go back to George W. Bush. There is no need for a Republican Party. The Know-Nothing Party, the Whigs, the Progressives and the Populists all vanished from history. The Socialist and Libertarian Parties never gained traction. We’ve consigned the Communist and Fascist Parties to oblivion, so that no one would dare publicly join one. The Republican Party needs to be in one of these categories. I don’t care which one. Let the country create a new party with actual policy goals beyond bigotry, oppression, and benefiting the rich. That would help all Americans, including the right wing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/22 "2020-07-19T00:19:42Z")
That is what Gore wanted, isnt it? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/23 "2020-07-19T00:21:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > … > > , And at the same time by and large the Rs hold onto control of Congress, with the more Trumplike demagogue candidates fairing noticeably poorer than the more traditional R candidates. > … The Republicans cant hold onto control of Congress, since they dont have it now. They have a small majority in the Senate, which will, very likely, be smaller or not at all. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/24 "2020-07-19T00:23:03Z")
With 40% of the voters Trump cultists and 50% Democrats, where is there space for a new party? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/25 "2020-07-19T08:33:30Z")
I think conservatives are well-placed to make a comeback after a big Trump loss just like that they did after 2008. However they will have to moderate their views especially on economic issues and abandon their 40 year obsession with cutting taxes for the rich. They will have to become more like European right-wing populist parties which tend to be moderate on economic issues. If they can do that they will face a Democratic party which will probably overreach and move too far to the left. Once Trump is gone the ideological tensions between the left and moderates will erupt. The Democratic coalition of college-educated whites, blacks, Latinos, Asians has all sorts of potential fissures which will be exposed once Trump is no longer a unifying force. If they move sharply to the left on social issues they will continue to lose working-class whites who are still important especially in swing states. If they move sharply to the left on economics they will lose some of the Romney-Clinton voters they have gained in the last four years especially if the new GOP face is someone presentable like Nikki Halley or Marco Rubio. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/26 "2020-07-19T13:35:46Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > Perhaps they can name themselves the “Reprehensible Party”. Unfortunately, there’s already another party name starting with R so maybe that’s taken. > > Hillary already named that uber-right party, but unfortunately there’s also a party with a name staring with D, so they gotta keep looking some more. Yeah, I was making a riff on Hillary’s famous trenchant label / appalling gaffe depending on one’s POV. The second part of my comment was meant to say merely that any new party of any stripe would be better off with a name starting with a letter other than R or D. Nothing more than that. It’s an unlucky coincidence (and nothing more) that “Republican” and “Reprehensible” start with the same letter. If Hillary had labeled them “Horrific” instead that issue wouldn’t arise. Pardon me for being obtuse, but what does the second part of your sentence mean? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/27 "2020-07-19T14:17:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > … > > > > , And at the same time by and large the Rs hold onto control of Congress, with the more Trumplike demagogue candidates fairing noticeably poorer than the more traditional R candidates. > > … > > The Republicans cant hold onto control of Congress, since they dont have it now. They have a small majority in the Senate, which will, very likely, be smaller or not at all. Agreed about the relative headcount of the two parties in the two houses. Sorry I was unclear. Their current small majority in the Senate is sufficient to block 100% of legislation they disapprove of. And 100% of judicial or executive branch appointments they disapprove of. Particularly for a supposedly conservative party generally opposed to government action of all stripes, that sounds a lot like _de facto_ control to me. And _if_ that majority holds up this Fall it will certainly be enough to thwart most of the ambitions of a Biden presidency. I will grant that the R’s current “control” is far short of total; a reliable veto is very different from _carte blanche_. As the minority party in the House now they have had a _much_ harder time introducing or passing legislation they would prefer. Between D committee chairs and D majority in the overall House, the Rs are pretty frustrated on their activist front. In all, IMO it’s a more nuanced picture than my sound bite summary made clear. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/28 "2020-07-19T16:43:05Z")
The Republicans have the same problems, only worse. Their base is aging out, and I mean dying. They will be losing probably a million elders a year on the next two decades. Only a fraction of young voters lean right, so they will have nothing to replace those numbers with. That’s meaningful at the state level as well as the presidential race. If the Democrats start winning elections in Florida, Georgia, and Texas and other currently red states, the Republicans will have less power to raise money, get out voters, and provide nationally-recognized candidates. Beto O’Rourke and Stacey Abrams got appreciation for losing close but that turned out to give them nothing else in the short run. The Republican policy choices are far worse. What can they run on if the country wants even the Biden-lite version of Medicare for All and the Green New Deal and fighting climate change and free college and Made in America and racial equality? More tax cuts? More voter suppression? Less immigration? Biden is literally running on a Make America Great Again platform, no matter what it’s called. The Republicans have no positive plans at all. Maybe after four or eight years out of office they’ll be forced to find some, but they’ll have to deal with the issue of their rabid base, which, totally unlike the Democrats, actually control the party and can’t be pushed off to the side by the majority. They can’t just name a candidate who is not centrist (Rubio? Haley?) but mildly less insane than the fringe and expect to win. Unless, of course, the world collapses in an even worse way than 2020. But if that happens, all bets are off. Anybody can make any case for anyone in an apocalyptic future. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/29 "2020-07-19T17:32:42Z")
If Biden wins, he knows how to manipulate the senate. If the Dems win a couple of seats (as currently predicted), so only one Republican has to cross the aisle, Joe can get that one vote. Of course, if it is 50/50 or the Dems get 51 seats, then all the better. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/30 "2020-07-19T17:34:44Z")
And day 1, toss the filibuster. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/31 "2020-07-19T23:47:36Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > > [@dtilque](#): > > > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > > > Perhaps they can name themselves the “Reprehensible Party”. Unfortunately, there’s already another party name starting with R so maybe that’s taken. > > > > Hillary already named that uber-right party, but unfortunately there’s also a party with a name staring with D, so they gotta keep looking some more. > > Yeah, I was making a riff on Hillary’s famous trenchant label / appalling gaffe depending on one’s POV. You were being too elliptical, since it wasn’t obvious that you were riffing on Hillary’s gaffe. > [@](#): > > The second part of my comment was meant to say merely that any new party of any stripe would be better off with a name starting with a letter other than R or D. Nothing more than that. It’s an unlucky coincidence (and nothing more) that “Republican” and “Reprehensible” start with the same letter. If Hillary had labeled them “Horrific” instead that issue wouldn’t arise. > > Pardon me for being obtuse, but what does the second part of your sentence mean? More or less the same thing you said above. They can’t use Hillary’s label because it starts with a D, so they have to look further for a new name. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/32 "2020-07-20T21:30:52Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Conservatives are better off with Trump gone as Trump is very bad for the country in the long run and they know it too. I’m a conservative, and I agree completely. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/33 "2020-07-20T22:33:05Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > … > They can’t use Hillary’s label because it starts with a D, so they have to look further for a new name. You know what? I’m a friggin moron. With God as my witness\* I somehow “remembered” that “Reprehensible” was the term Hillary used. Which is why I was surprised / perplexed when you didn’t get my original post. Which also meant when I first read your second reply quoted here I was _still_ mystified about you saying " … starts with D …". Then in a flash the word “Deplorable” exploded into my brain and suddenly you made sense and I realized I hadn’t been making any at all! 22K posts in and I’ve finally done it: I’ve whooshed myself. And accidentally you too in the process. :smack: :smack: :smack:\*\* Sorry 'bout that, Chief! * * * \* I thought turkeys could fly! \*\* Shame that particular emoticon doesn’t work here & Discourse has no suitable substitute. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2020, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/34 "2020-07-21T02:17:41Z")
American style conservatism rarely leads to good outcomes. The last time conservatism had any real case to make was in 1980 after 40 years of welfare state growth, but since that time, the wealth gap has increased and deficits have exploded. What we have now isn’t conservatism; it’s borderline fascism, which is what conservatism leads to at its ultimate extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/35 "2020-07-24T16:27:51Z")
The american system does not allow for more than 2 successful parties. Any push for another will either fail, or just be the same thing under a new name. Honestly I see a bigger chance of a split between center left democrats and progressives than center right republicans and the hard right, or “Trumpists” if you will. The Trump base is not going anywhere even if he does. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626/36 "2020-07-24T16:34:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If Biden wins, progressives will be victorious and move the nation left at a time when the progressive wing of the D’s is in strong upswing. Except Biden isn’t a progressive, he’s an establishment liberal. I agree, that’s probably cold comfort for ‘anti-Trump conservatives’ and they probably wouldn’t see it as that much better of an outcome, though honestly most of the anti-Trump Republicans/Conservatives I know plan to hold their nose and vote for Biden anyway, as literally anything would be better than Trump. I think the upside (for AT-Cs) is that if Biden wins, it will be handing the Dems a bag full of shit to take over, and most AT-Cs or AT-Rs don’t think Biden has what it takes to really do much, so will be looking at 2024 and running a more traditional Republican (not that I, personally, think this will work out for them). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-anti-trump-conservatives-there-is-no-good-election-outcome-in-2020-either-way/915626.md?page=1)