# For Better or For Worse 1/21 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 21, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397 "2008-01-21T18:39:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/1 "2008-01-21T18:39:31Z")
[Link.](http://www.overzealous.com/comics/view.jsp?comic=forbetter&date=20080121) That’s not “two” he’s signaling, dear. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![hopesperson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@hopesperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hopesperson)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/2 "2008-01-21T23:35:12Z")
Looks like Grandpa is actually Neil from _The Young Ones_. I always wondered what happened to him. The years have not been kind. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/3 "2008-01-22T02:47:00Z")
Go Grandpa Jim! He speaks for all of us! Too bad that wasn’t Liz or Michael in front of him, though. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/4 "2008-01-22T04:40:58Z")
Sorry, I don’t get it. He wasn’t giving the famed one-finger salute. What am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/5 "2008-01-22T04:52:08Z")
The two-fingered salute (the peace signal reversed) is the equivalent of the one-finger salute outside the US (perhaps outside Canada as well). ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/6 "2008-01-22T04:54:44Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] The two-fingered salute (the peace signal reversed) is the equivalent of the one-finger salute outside the US (perhaps outside Canada as well). [/QUOTE] I heard it originated from showing somebody that you could shoot a bow, anybody have the straight dope on that? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/7 "2008-01-22T04:56:04Z")
Amusing article with an explanation: [Fuji gives photographers the two-finger salute](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/07/fuji_two_fingers/) > [@](#): > > Those not familiar with this very British gesture can rest assured that it is favoured for deployment from car windows during moments of road rage and usually results in a good old punch-up, if not a fatal stabbing. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/8 "2008-01-22T04:58:59Z")
[QUOTE=Snarky\_Kong] I heard it originated from showing somebody that you could shoot a bow, anybody have the straight dope on that? [/QUOTE] Cecil: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980904.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980904.html) Snopes: > **[What Is the History of the Middle Finger?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pluck-yew/)** > > The 'middle finger salute' did not derive from the defiant gestures of archers whose fingers had been severed at the Battle of Agincourt. Short version: probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/9 "2008-01-22T05:00:03Z")
[QUOTE=Snarky\_Kong] I heard it originated from showing somebody that you could shoot a bow, anybody have the straight dope on that? [/QUOTE] I’ve also heard that rumour attached to the middle-finger alone. Snopes says [that it’s false](http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.asp). ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/10 "2008-01-22T10:11:24Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] Amusing article with an explanation: [Fuji gives photographers the two-finger salute](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/07/fuji_two_fingers/) [/QUOTE] In 1992, while driving past protesters in Canberra, [President George H. W. Bush](http://fs6.depauw.edu:50080/~jkochanczyk/president/bush.html) gave the “V for Victory” sign with the back of his hand turned outwards. The protestors angrily returned the gesture. Bush later apologized. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/11 "2008-01-22T12:12:33Z")
[QUOTE=cochrane] In 1992, while driving past protesters in Canberra, [President George H. W. Bush](http://fs6.depauw.edu:50080/~jkochanczyk/president/bush.html) gave the “V for Victory” sign with the back of his hand turned outwards. The protestors angrily returned the gesture. Bush later apologized. [/QUOTE] Didn’t a similar incident involve Margaret Thatcher? I think I saw a picture of Mags trying to give a “V” for victory before she realized which side of her hand was facing the camera. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/12 "2008-01-22T13:44:19Z")
[QUOTE=cochrane] In 1992, while driving past protesters in Canberra, [President George H. W. Bush](http://fs6.depauw.edu:50080/~jkochanczyk/president/bush.html) gave the “V for Victory” sign with the back of his hand turned outwards. The protestors angrily returned the gesture. Bush later apologized. [/QUOTE] I remember hearing about that. It was the same Pacific tour in which he barfed on the Japanese PM. All in all, not a good trip. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-1-21/434397/13 "2008-01-22T23:42:25Z")
oy! that was quite the trip. foreign relations must run in the family.