# For Better or For Worse 8/11 & 8/12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 12, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731 "2005-08-12T15:00:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/21 "2005-08-12T18:51:25Z")
WAG: Somehow, Anthony & Liz will end up in each others arms in a comforting way, and then Anthony’s bitch of a wife will show up. This should set the wheels of divorce in action. Oh, Liz did tell her dad about the guy following her. He got the tag number as the perv sped away. Dad wanted to call the police, but Liz didn’t want him to. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/22 "2005-08-12T18:52:17Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Being “too nice” != being “a dim bulb.” > > It’s sometimes hard to separate behavior traits and patterns from people, but there ya go. Sorry, but if you can’t figure out that your behavior is causing you unnecessary trouble and heartache, over and over again over many years, then there’s a legitimate question about how bright you are. Intelligent people learn from their mistakes and can modify their behavior to avoid bad results. Liz hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/23 "2005-08-12T19:02:37Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if Johnston turned to a new storyline tomorrow. Everytime a storyline gets real good she abandons it for something else. For instance, when Ellie’s employee was stealing from the toy shop. Just when the girl was confronted, Johnston went somewhere else. It took a few months before she went back to the storyline, in which the girl is fired and she decides to sue Ellie. And then it was off somewhere else again and I don’t remember if Johnston ever resolved the “Ellie vs. what-her-name” plotline. Just some vague reference to how the girl was working somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![katie1341](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/91b2a8/32.png) [@katie1341](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/katie1341)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/24 "2005-08-12T19:04:05Z")
I actually came into Cafe Society to see if anyone had posted about this storyline. My WAG is that Anthony came into the nursery to tell Liz that he and his wife are separating, and he got to play the knight in shining armour. I wouldn’t have thought that if it weren’t for his comment about having something worth fighting for. Of course, I coudl be wrong. ``` I agree with those who say that Lynn Johnston is a moron if she doesn't create some serious consequences for Creepo. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/25 "2005-08-12T19:07:04Z")
**Q. N. Jones.** Sorry, but with respect, we may have very different ideas of intelligence. I see a lack of assertiveness as primarily a _personality_ defect. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/26 "2005-08-12T19:08:12Z")
Predictions: 1. Anthony just happened by to pick up a plant. His wife stopped speaking to him, so he needs something to talk to during his long days as Mr. Mom. 2. Howard will get off scot-free because Pattersons hate to make a fuss and press charges (see the Kortney storyline). 3. The romance angle will be dropped, like all the other exciting plotlines have been. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/27 "2005-08-12T19:10:21Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **Q. N. Jones.** Sorry, but with respect, we may have very different ideas of intelligence. I see a lack of assertiveness as primarily a _personality_ defect. I see a lack of understanding that one’s passivity is leading to serious problems in their life as a lack of emotional intelligence. I think that’s pretty hard to dispute. Passivity may also be a personality defect, if carried too far. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/28 "2005-08-12T19:10:46Z")
> [@katie1341](#): > > I agree with those who say that Lynn Johnston is a moron if she doesn’t create some serious consequences for Creepo. He’s got to at least get fired. I don’t see Lawrence even coming close to believing any excuses Howard comes up with pitted against Liz, whose brother was one of his best friends as a kid and teenager and whose parents practically talked him back into his parent’s house when he came out. ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/29 "2005-08-12T19:13:01Z")
No, no, **Katie** , obviously Anthony has been stalking Liz, too! We’re expected to believe he just took a break from working at home and happened to stop by the exact same place Liz works? “Oh, hi, Liz! I wanted to buy my bitchy-ass wife some flowers, and thought I’d see if there was a special on carnations. I didn’t know _you_ worked here!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/30 "2005-08-12T19:15:42Z")
But now you’re defining “intelligence” as “emotional intelligence,” which is pretty far afield with what one normally considers smarts and I think _that’s_ pretty hard to dispute. The rest of your post – not recognizing that one’s passivity causes problems – I agree with. I just don’t think it’s fair to call her “stupid” or “a dim bulb” for that _says the man who suddenly realizes he’s talking about a reproduction of a drawing…_ ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/31 "2005-08-12T19:34:31Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > But now you’re defining “intelligence” as “emotional intelligence,” which is pretty far afield with what one normally considers smarts and I think _that’s_ pretty hard to dispute. The rest of your post – not recognizing that one’s passivity causes problems – I agree with. I just don’t think it’s fair to call her “stupid” or “a dim bulb” for that _says the man who suddenly realizes he’s talking about a reproduction of a drawing…_ There’s a pretty well-accepted theory of intelligence that says there are seven types of intelligence, and the one that we normally think of–the IQ kind–is just one of them. Emotional intelligence is another one of the seven. I don’t personally ever use the blanket word “intelligence” to mean only the IQ kind. And, at least in my everyday life experience, most other people don’t, either. People get called dumb for not making connections about behavior and consequences all the time in the real world. “X is a big procrastinator. He’s gotten fired from three jobs because of work being turned in late. Yet he doesn’t realize it’s all his fault–he blames “the man.” What a dumbass!” “Y is a huge shrew. She nags her husband day in and day out. She’s on her fourth marriage. She thinks it’s because she always picks the wrong guy. She’s so dumb!” And yes, both X and Y obviously have some intellectual problem with making the connection between behavior and consequences. Procrastination and bitchiness are the personality defects, yes, but they’ve got other issues as well. I’m not saying she’s a drooling idiot, but she is being extraordinarily slow to catch on. Sheesh…only on the SDMB can a throwaway comment like this get analyzed to death. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/32 "2005-08-12T19:57:43Z")
Howard Gardner’s theories are what I was alluding to, only multiple intelligence doesn’t have a category called emotional intelligence – but in Liz’s context, her _intrapersonal intelligence_ needs more development. [Link.](http://www.infed.org/thinkers/gardner.htm) Heh, yeah. Gotta watch them throwaway comments – I’ve been jumped on for less than yours by meaner than me. We’re essentially in agreement except for the “dim-dumb” remark. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/33 "2005-08-12T20:10:18Z")
You’re right, I collapsed two of the forms of intelligence into one–inter- and intrapersonal–into emotional. But that’s how they’re usually discussed in the psych circles I’ve traveled in. Also, Liz has never been portrayed as being smart. Mike is supposed to be the Mr. Genius Writing Stud. What are Liz’s strengths? She’s kind of pretty, she’s supposedly good with kids, and she’s nice. I can’t ever remember reading a strip where we’re supposed to get the message that Liz is smart. I feel like Lynn is trying to say that Mike is the big overachieving brain of the family, and that Liz is nice and sweet and average. She’s average at book smarts. She’s terrible at intrapersonal. And she’s demonstrated that she’s oftentimes pretty bad with the interpersonal stuff as well. I think we’re supposed to believe she’s good with kids, but she has had a hard time understanding Jesse’s motivations and emotions at times when they’re really crystal clear. We have no evidence for logical or kinesthetic or musical or spatial abilities. Liz is a dim bulb. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/34 "2005-08-12T20:21:13Z")
LOL. You’re so mean. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/35 "2005-08-12T20:26:38Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > LOL. You’re so mean. Now you’re getting it! 🙂 I will confess that my sisters Libby (“Liz with smarts”) and Mary (“April”) both say I am way too quick to call people dumb. But then, I am the Mike of the family, and thus a Genius Stud(ette). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/36 "2005-08-12T22:54:46Z")
…umm… didn’t this used to be a comic strip about the wacky antics of a family? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/37 "2005-08-12T23:06:23Z")
> [@Push You Down](#): > > …umm… didn’t this used to be a comic strip about the wacky antics of a family? Yep. And then Farley died. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/38 "2005-08-12T23:10:46Z")
FBOFW has always had humor, even about serious things. But it also has tackled tougher issues, like Lawrence coming out, the death of a parent(Ellie’s mother), or the death of Farley the dog. The latter sounds not so major, but Farley was getting old for a dog, he had to go sometime, no matter how “popular” he was. And he died saving April, so there was a bittersweetness to it. I remember when Lawrence came out a number of newspapers wouldn’t carry the strip that week, including my own. The paper has become more broadminded since, and when there was another controversy at the time Mike got married(His bitcht MIL to be didn’t want a gay man in the wedding party) our paper carried it, although some still didn’t. 'Course MIL didn’t know Mike and Deanna were already married, I’m wondering if she’s ever gonna find out about the discrepancy. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/39 "2005-08-12T23:12:20Z")
Isn’t the strip supposed to end in the next couple of years? I’d like to see it go out Black Adder style and come back with all the characters in different roles. ---
**Author:** ![neofishboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/neofishboy/32/444_2.png) [@neofishboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neofishboy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731/40 "2005-08-13T00:32:11Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > I’d like to see it go out **Black Adder style** … Gunned down by the Germans?!? You heartless bastard! :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-better-or-for-worse-8-11-8-12/316731.md?page=3)