# For bitching about language pedantry, other posters' language, and language in general **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135 "2024-06-16T22:40:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/221 "2024-06-22T19:17:06Z")
So possibly a more FQ item for the linguistic nerds in the house … Given that whatever is considered “standard” language evolves. Are there any metrics regarding the typical rate of that change? Obviously casual, slang, and subcultural language evolves more quickly. At least historically. So for example over the course of my adult lifetime I have noted that unmodified adjectives are increasingly used as adverbs, not just in everyday speech but by those reporting on serious news shows, a “space” in word usage is often monitored for approved style. My impression is that the rate of change for “standard” language is faster than even a generation ago, but I wonder if that impression has any real basis? (A recent spreading usage that annoys me that I’ve heard increasing is when a speaker states the noun followed by the pronoun: “The traffic, it is light from …”) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/222 "2024-06-22T20:58:09Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > My impression is that the rate of change for “standard” language is faster than even a generation ago, but I wonder if that impression has any real basis? It varies from linguist to linguist. Some stand by the [glottochronologic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottochronology) constant, some (probably most) don’t. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/223 "2024-06-23T03:37:47Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > > I see the dumbing down of English in the matters of accepted conjugated forms and metaphorical idioms as an _everyone_ problem. > > There are plenty of things I read on the Dope that are nails on a chalkboard for me, so I understand where you’re coming from. But as **Larry\_Borgia** said, it’s my problem that those things bother me, and it would be rude and selfish of me to point them out every time. I’m not asking you to get over them; I just ask why you need to point it out to everyone else. > > Is your goal to teach the poster correct spelling and grammar? Then why not send a PM to the poster instead of interrupting the thread for everyone. And if it seems weird to send a PM to someone to correct their spelling, then maybe consider why you think it’s OK to post it publicly. Thank you for articulating why the nitpicking is so annoying _in the middle of a serious discussion!_ . > [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/2970): > > I know - I just wanted to be a pedant. So… you admit to being a pedaphile? Are you allowed to be pedantic within 500 yards of a school? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/224 "2024-06-23T04:17:37Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > (A recent spreading usage that annoys me that I’ve heard increasing is when a speaker states the noun followed by the pronoun: “The traffic, it is light from …”) To me, that is like: “The traffic? It is light from…” Another example: > A: “Do you know Susan?” > B: “Susan? She’s sitting by the door.” ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/225 "2024-06-23T05:35:48Z")
> [@digs](#): > > So… you admit to being a pedaphile? No, no, no, I’m a pedalphile. I _really_ like bicycle pedals. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/226 "2024-06-23T06:39:12Z")
“Look at that flower petal!” “I know, it’s amazing that it can move its roots fast enough to get a bike up that hill.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/227 "2024-06-23T11:20:38Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > To me, that is like: “The traffic? It is light from…” Except it is not said in that manner. At first it was simply one particular announcer’s apparent affection, but I am hearing it more and more. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/228 "2024-06-23T12:03:35Z")
When I was in first or second grade, that used to be fairly common among the kids. E.g., “My mother, she told me…” The teachers would explicitly tell us not to do that. I haven’t heard that construction in a long time, but I admit that I don’t listen to traffic reports on the radio that much. Nor do I hang around young kids enough to know if they still do that. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/229 "2024-06-23T12:34:36Z")
I associate that usage with non-native speakers. That is, it sounds like a Russian accent to me. (I used to work with a lot of Russians.) ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/230 "2024-06-23T13:21:39Z")
What about [The Heart, She Holler](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heart,_She_Holler)? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/231 "2024-06-23T16:38:14Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > At first it was simply one particular announcer’s apparent affection, but I am hearing it more and more. “Affectation” . Though even that isn’t quite right. It’s more of a mannerism or quirk of dialect. Although devoted ddscriptivists will no doubt justify it as a functional element of language, the equivalent of preceding a sentence with “Hey!” . ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/232 "2024-06-23T17:10:06Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > ddscriptivists Descriptivists… 😀 (Yes I knew what you meant to type, just as surely as you knew what I meant to type.) To your point - if a quirk or mannerism becomes widely enough used in particular contexts then that is what language is in those contexts. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/233 "2024-06-23T17:39:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > (Yes I knew what you meant to type, just as surely as you knew what I meant to type.) FWIW (which is not much) my mistake was a typo and was caused by pecking out my response on my tablet’s virtual keyboard. Yours was a malapropism. No big deal, but not the same. > [@DSeid](#): > > if a quirk or mannerism becomes widely enough used in particular contexts then that is what language is in those contexts. More accurately, that is what language **becomes**. And if the particular quirk is illogical and the result of mishearing or misunderstanding or some other mistake, then the language becomes needlessly convoluted and confusing. About which I might well opine that “I literally could care less”, an expression with so many different interpretations that it now means nothing at all. That’s why those who try to stop such abuses are destined for heaven. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/234 "2024-06-23T18:00:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Yours was a malapropism. No big deal, but not the same. Actually mine was an autocorrectism but the point has unsurprisingly been completely missed: your compulsion to constantly and consistently “correct” is mockable, comedic, needless, and simply annoying. > [@wolfpup](#): > > That’s why those who try to stop such abuses are destined for heaven. I have no personal belief in any afterlife but those “who try to stop such abuses” are damned to Hell while living! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/235 "2024-06-23T18:10:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > your compulsion to constantly and consistently “correct” is mockable, comedic, needless, and simply annoying. It would be in real life. But as I said earlier, I never correct anyone IRL. Here on the Dope, however, the word you’re looking for is “tradition”. And in a Pit thread about pedantry, it’s basically mandatory! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/236 "2024-06-23T18:34:48Z")
There is a degree of errant pedantry up with which even the most ardent of Dopers shall not put! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/237 "2024-06-23T18:54:13Z")
Ah, _but for_ (you don’t need to be told what’s a “butt for”, I hope, if so, well, have a seat) the impetus for your honorable Pit mention was your not having … shrunk … from your self appointed role as marshal of our lawless lexicography in a Cafe Society thread. And while I of course am mostly having fun here, Cafe Society on a message board is a context in which “proper” usage need not be policed. Your comment of course also raises the reason why the increased share of social interactions being not in person, not IRL, is a detriment to discourse. We allow ourselves behaviors that we would not allow ourselves face to face. Seriously, consider why you would not allow yourself to correct people “IRL” but feel it is your _obligation_ to do such on line? What are you thinking that makes it not okay to do in the real world but fine in a discussion about a comic strip on line? No news flash here: it is just as mockable and annoying on line. Maybe more? In the real world friends know me and know I love discussing words and am happy to go off on digressions about how words are misused as well as used. They can know and play the specific room, fine with me, not with our mutual friend Eddie, whatever. Here, correcting people you don’t know? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/238 "2024-06-23T19:39:16Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > … your self appointed role as marshal of our lawless lexicography in a Cafe Society thread. As I implied earlier, affected pedantry as a form of humour is practically a tradition on the Dope, but I don’t recall this specific instance and I’m genuinely curious. Can you point me to the thread you’re talking about? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/239 "2024-06-23T19:52:39Z")
Um, scroll to the top of this thread and click the link? That CS pedantic correction is what birthed your berth in The Pit. (I’d have thought the “shrunk” would’ve jogged recollection?) You thunks that people should hear the error of shrunks. But shranks you said and got no thanks. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/240 "2024-06-23T20:07:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > That CS pedantic correction is what birthed your berth in The Pit. (I’d have thought the “shrunk” would’ve jogged recollection?) What the ever-loving fuck are you talking about? The “pedantic correction” in CS was by **kaylasdad99** , not me. My comments which eventually spawned a wider discussion about pedantry were entirely confined to the Pit and didn’t even have anything to do with the original remark. Maybe next time check your facts more carefully before making unfounded asinine accusations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135.md?page=13)