# For bitching about language pedantry, other posters' language, and language in general **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135 "2024-06-16T22:40:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/241 "2024-06-23T20:34:37Z")
Ah. I apologize for my getting confused. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/242 "2024-06-23T20:40:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > > [@DSeid](#): > > > > if a quirk or mannerism becomes widely enough used in particular contexts then that is what language is in those contexts. > > More accurately, that is what language **becomes**. Explain this to me. A quirk or mannerism is used in particular contexts, but you don’t think that’s what language is? What do you mean by “becomes”? If it’s already in use, what still needs to happen before you accept that it’s language? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/243 "2024-06-23T20:47:47Z")
Apology accepted and appreciated. > [@TroutMan](#): > > Explain this to me. A quirk or mannerism is used in particular contexts, but you don’t think that’s what language is? What do you mean by “becomes”? What I mean is that a quirk or mannerism is nothing more than that until and unless it becomes widely repeated and thereby becomes commonplace despite being illogical or nonsensical. I’m pretty sure that’s how “I could care less” was born, notwithstanding fanciful efforts to justify it. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/244 "2024-06-23T21:07:21Z")
So, exactly what **DSeid** said. But you still needed to correct him for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/245 "2024-06-23T21:16:34Z")
Not “correcting”; clarifying. Emphasizing that it takes time for that to happen. That’s what the words “more accurately” mean; they signify a refinement, not a disagreement. And by the way, fuck off. You’ve been a pain in the ass ever since your annoying and completely unnecessary first post here that started this whole kerfuffle. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/246 "2024-06-23T21:19:58Z")
Myself, I have a problem figuring out when to put a comma and when a semi colon is called for. Its been awhile since school! ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/247 "2024-06-23T21:32:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Not “correcting”; clarifying. Emphasizing that it takes time for that to happen. That’s what the words “more accurately” mean; they signify a refinement, not a disagreement. You didn’t clarify anything. **DSeid** said “widely enough used in particular contexts,” and your clarification was “unless it becomes widely repeated.” Please, share your pedantic explanation of how that was different enough to require clarification. > [@wolfpup](#): > > And by the way, fuck off. You’ve been a pain in the ass ever since your annoying and completely unnecessary first post here that started this whole kerfuffle. I had a grand total of 1 post after my initial request to kaylasdad, compared to your 25 posts. But do tell how I’m the pain in the ass here. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/248 "2024-06-23T21:35:41Z")
I was agreeing with you until **impactful** but now you’re dead to me. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/249 "2024-06-23T21:35:51Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Myself, I have a problem figuring out when to put a comma and when a semi colon is called for. I usually use a comma where it would be natural to pause if what I was typing was something I was saying aloud. A semicolon is used when you have two completely different clauses rather than a simple pause in the middle of a clause. Here’s an example: “I went to a party, and there I met my friend Stacy.” “I hate eating shellfish; I haven’t eaten a shrimp cocktail for decades.” In the first example you’re just pausing briefly before getting to the rest of your sentence. It was a natural break in the narrative. In the second example, you have two different clauses but the first one leads naturally to the second one. If you used a comma instead of a semicolon it would look jarring. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/250 "2024-06-23T21:55:02Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > I have a problem figuring out when to put a comma and when a semi colon is called for. The rule is that if both parts of the sentence can stand alone as sentences (“independent clauses”), use a semicolon. > [@Atamasama](#): > > “I hate eating shellfish; I haven’t eaten a shrimp cocktail for decades.” So in Atamasama’s example, both parts can stand as full sentences on their own. They are “independent clauses”. So they need the semicolon. If you’d used a comma there (incorrectly), it’s called a “comma splice”. In Canada (at least until recently), the semicolon guideline was more loose - use it when it seems like a longer pause. So you’ll sometimes see some of our Canadian posters using it differently than USians. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/251 "2024-06-23T22:08:40Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > The rule is that if both parts of the sentence can stand alone as sentences (“independent clauses”), use a semicolon. Yes, that’s the basic, general rule. @Atamasama gave a good example. The rule seems to be violated in the first sentence in my previous post, “Not ‘correcting’; clarifying” but that’s only because I was using shortened phrases for brevity. The actual full form of the sentence would been been something like “It’s not ‘correcting’; it is clarifying”, where one can explicitly see the two independent clauses. I’m not aware of the usage being any different in Canada than it is anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/252 "2024-06-23T22:13:22Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’m not aware of the usage being any different in Canada than it is anywhere else. Now let’s discuss when it’s appropriate to use a comma and when to use a semicolon before adding “Eh?” to the end of a sentence. 😜 ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/253 "2024-06-23T22:53:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The rule seems to be violated in the first sentence in my previous post, “Not ‘correcting’; clarifying” but that’s only because I was using shortened phrases for brevity. Yeah, I tend to do that in texts and sometimes here when I’m posting from my phone. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/254 "2024-06-23T23:16:07Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Except it is not said in that manner. At first it was simply one particular announcer’s apparent affection, but I am hearing it more and more. Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/255 "2024-06-23T23:40:13Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I associate that usage with non-native speakers. That is, it sounds like a Russian accent to me. (I used to work with a lot of Russians.) In a Yiddish accent, it’s the other way around: “She dances beautifully, that girl.” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/256 "2024-06-23T23:59:53Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. > [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > In a Yiddish accent, it’s the other way around: “She dances beautifully, that girl.” I’m going to take this opportunity to say that despite all the invective hurled at me as a supposed intractable “prescriptivist”, this sort of thing doesn’t bother me all. In fact it’s rather cute, though certainly not appropriate in formal contexts. And one can hardly object to imperfect English being spoken by those for whom English is a second or maybe even a third language. The best way I can describe what **does** bother me is to say that it’s native English speakers who butcher the language because they’re fucking morons. The ones who “should of” done something. The ones who “literally could care less” about things. The ones who don’t know what apostrophes are for. The ones who don’t even know what words mean. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/257 "2024-06-24T00:50:10Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > (A recent spreading usage that annoys me that I’ve heard increasing is when a speaker states the noun followed by the pronoun: “The traffic, it is light from …”) “The goggles. They do nothing!” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/258 "2024-06-24T00:55:12Z")
Funny enough, I also associate that speech pattern with melodramatic comic book dialog (and/or monologues), particularly Gold/Silver Age. Just reach your hand straight out, palm up, fingers curled as if you’re holding an invisible apple, and say it fervently. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/259 "2024-06-24T01:58:55Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > “The goggles. They do nothing!” The spirit of this thread compels me to point out that it’s actually “The goggles do nothing!” ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/260 "2024-06-24T02:22:28Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > The spirit of this thread compels me to point out that it’s actually “The goggles do nothing!” Damn it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135.md?page=14)