# For bitching about language pedantry, other posters' language, and language in general **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135 "2024-06-16T22:40:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/21 "2024-06-17T01:54:03Z")
> [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/2842): > > > [@TroutMan](#): > > > > I distinguish between pedantic corrections and _annoying_ pedantic corrections. The former are fine (and encouraged), the latter are annoying. > > The last sentence is hiding behind the passive voice. That is not the passive voice. The verb in that sentence is a copula. They’re entirely different, although they both use the verb _to be_. Maybe that’s how they are gotten confused. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/22 "2024-06-17T01:56:11Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > And can we turn back the polluted, sludge-filled tide of people using the verb “lay” when it should be “lie”? Preach it! I’m reading a book by an author whom I personally admire, but she does that on every other page. Cumulatively, it becomes irritating. Whenever anyone says they’re “laying,” I go “What are you, a hen?” ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/23 "2024-06-17T02:05:41Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > We had a short sprint of a book club once. In the context of this thread, we refer to it, per @Atamasama as: > [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/746): > > BOOK CLUB, MOTHERFUCKERS! ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/24 "2024-06-17T03:00:08Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > NOT What’s _Normal Operating Temperature_ (which I can only assume you meant, since you capitalized all those letters) got to do with this? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/25 "2024-06-17T03:12:28Z")
I blame Bob Dylan. “Lay Lady Lay” sets my teeth on edge. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/26 "2024-06-17T03:44:46Z")
It doesn’t mine, because I assume that in that song the sexual implication is deliberate. But usually it does, because I always hear the sexual implication; and “lay” in the incorrect fashion is often used when that wouldn’t be appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/27 "2024-06-17T04:05:57Z")
“Lie, Lady, Lie” would just be asking for trouble.🤭 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/28 "2024-06-17T04:52:11Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > But usually it does, because I always hear the sexual implication; and “lay” in the incorrect fashion is often used when that wouldn’t be appropriate. [![](https://digitalassets.pepsico.com/m/3327ca92d1315ac2/Hi_Res-00028400734035_C1C1.jpg) ](https://digitalassets.pepsico.com/m/3327ca92d1315ac2/Hi_Res-00028400734035_C1C1.jpg) Oh, baby! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/29 "2024-06-17T09:02:23Z")
> [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/2855): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > The last sentence is hiding behind the passive voice. > > That is not the passive voice. The verb in that sentence is a copula. They’re entirely different, although they both use the verb _to be_. I always thought a copula was a term in statistics for a multivariate cumulative distribution function, or possibly a domed structure on top of a roof (wait, that’s “cupola”!). Notwithstanding your erudite correction, I maintain that there’s a passive element there (one might almost be inclined to describe it as “passive-aggressive”) which shares with the passive voice the desire to avoid accountability by characterizing some action or belief as essentially an unavoidable force of nature rather than a personal choice. For example, the Big Kahuna stating “effective next week your salaries will be reduced by 20%” instead of “I’m cutting your salaries by 20% next week (because I’m a greedy asshole)”. It fools no one but it makes the speaker appear less culpable. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/30 "2024-06-17T12:13:38Z")
Your latest example (“will be reduced”) really is the passive voice. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/31 "2024-06-17T14:23:28Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Oh, baby! Sweet & spicy honey indeed. Rowwwrrr!!! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/32 "2024-06-17T14:56:54Z")
That’s a you problem. Please stop inflicting it on everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/33 "2024-06-17T20:17:28Z")
Thank you for the kind invitation, but I think I’ll have to pass. While I have no appetite for the creation of an _Academie Anglais_ (if you’ll pardon my neologism), I see the dumbing down of English in the matters of accepted conjugated forms and metaphorical idioms as an _everyone_ problem. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/34 "2024-06-17T20:19:53Z")
Do languages not evolve? What you call “dumbing down” is a natural process and probably improving a very crappy language by normalizing it more. English could use a lot of dumbing down it would seem. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/35 "2024-06-17T20:30:08Z")
I can see simplification of antiquated writing(and speaking) of the English language can only be a plus. If understanding is the goal. Read a bit of Shakespeare. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/36 "2024-06-17T20:57:07Z")
I don’t know if this is the most pompous post ever made on this message board, but it’s gotta be in the running. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/37 "2024-06-17T21:00:03Z")
Look for one by someone who _DOES_ want to found the _Academie Anglais_. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/38 "2024-06-17T21:03:09Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Do languages not evolve? > > What you call “dumbing down” is a natural process and probably improving a very crappy language by normalizing it more. > > English could use a lot of dumbing down it would seem. If it leads to words such as “_sprang_” ceasing to be recognized, it’s ludicrous to characterize that as a improvement. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/39 "2024-06-17T21:07:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Thank you for the kind invitation, but I think I’ll have to pass. While I have no appetite for the creation of an _Academie Anglais_ (if you’ll pardon my neologism), I see the dumbing down of English in the matters of accepted conjugated forms and metaphorical idioms as an _everyone_ problem. There are plenty of things I read on the Dope that are nails on a chalkboard for me, so I understand where you’re coming from. But as **Larry\_Borgia** said, it’s my problem that those things bother me, and it would be rude and selfish of me to point them out every time. I’m not asking you to get over them; I just ask why you need to point it out to everyone else. Is your goal to teach the poster correct spelling and grammar? Then why not send a PM to the poster instead of interrupting the thread for everyone. And if it seems weird to send a PM to someone to correct their spelling, then maybe consider why you think it’s OK to post it publicly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/40 "2024-06-17T21:07:22Z")
Some works of art can only be summed up as _“Dick Sprang.”_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135.md?page=3)