# For bitching about language pedantry, other posters' language, and language in general **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135 "2024-06-16T22:40:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/161 "2024-06-20T03:10:40Z")
Li-berry. Hate that. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/162 "2024-06-20T03:22:53Z")
LOL, I almost mentioned that one too. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/163 "2024-06-20T04:00:02Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > You will never, ever, get me to pronounce “mischievous” as “miss-CHEE-vee-us”. That one apparently goes back to the 16th century. If hundreds of years of harshly prescriptivist Oxford dons haven’t been able to kill it, you can bet you’re fighting a losing battle. Just give in already - Satan will grant you your own throne in Hell if you just say mis-CHEE-vee-us once. Publicly 😉. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/164 "2024-06-20T04:03:47Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s a pet peeve of mine when people say “Feb-you-erry”. There’s another “R” in there. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone pronounce it _with_ the other R. Do you say Wed-nes-day, too? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/165 "2024-06-20T04:15:30Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone pronounce it _with_ the other R. I always do. Though I suppose I might put a phantom W in there. Feb-ru-wary. Again, it’s more common to pronounce it without the second R but it sounds wrong to me. According to the dictionary both are correct. > [@needscoffee](#): > > Do you say Wed-nes-day, too? I pronounce it “Wenz-day” because that’s how it’s supposed to be pronounced. The D is silent. (Sometimes I want to call it Woden’s Day but I never do.) I also don’t say “new-que-lar” for nuclear. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/166 "2024-06-20T04:30:26Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Again, it’s more common to pronounce it without the second R but it sounds wrong to me. Boy, I keep trying, and I can barely pronounce it with that R. I can’t consistently pronounce “Rory”, either. I definitely can’t say “rural juror”. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/167 "2024-06-20T04:34:19Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Boy, I keep trying, and I can barely pronounce it with that R. Try “feh-brew-wary” which is how I pronounce it if I pay attention and dissect how I say it. > [@needscoffee](#): > > I definitely can’t say “rural juror”. Try singing it! ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/168 "2024-06-20T05:34:31Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I definitely can’t say “rural juror”. Can you say “Constance Justice”? ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/169 "2024-06-20T06:57:56Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I definitely can’t say “rural juror”. Try “soldier’s shoulder” a few times. That makes “rural juror” seem easy. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/170 "2024-06-20T07:14:28Z")
Viscious Bishop’s viscous biscuit ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/171 "2024-06-20T08:19:53Z")
> [@Jebbilene](#): > > Prescriptivists are people who want their version of the language to be the standard, because it shows that their social group is in control. I think it’s the other way around. My theory is that members of whatever social group is in control will always be prescriptivists, even if they weren’t before, because “proper language” serves as a useful gatekeeper. This happens in every culture. It’s inevitable, and unavoidable, and there’s nothing anyone can do to change it. Even if you “break” the rules, all you’ll do is create new rules everyone now has to follow. The only thing you can do is learn the rules, because if you can’t beat them, join them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/172 "2024-06-20T09:35:47Z")
‘Proper language’ serves as a gatekeeper _for the top social classes_, not society as a whole. That’s why creolization is a thing, that’s why _linguae franca_ are different from their pure parents, that’s why Romance languages aren’t Latin and were already developing that way when Romans still ruled. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/173 "2024-06-20T10:19:54Z")
Exactly. When the upper classes correct other people’s grammar, they don’t do it to improve them, they do it to put them in their place. The last thing they want is for everyone to speak “properly”, because that way they won’t be able to keep the riffraff out. That’s also why you should learn the “proper” language, in addition to your own dialect. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/174 "2024-06-20T10:46:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s also why you should learn the “proper” language, in addition to your own dialect. Sure. It’s one reason I normally have an RP accent. Doesn’t mean I don’t code-switch, and see the value of each English dialect I speak and accent I use, though. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/175 "2024-06-20T10:56:48Z")
> [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/3018): > > > [@needscoffee](#): > > > > I definitely can’t say “rural juror”. > > Can you say “Constance Justice”? Or Urban Ferver. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/176 "2024-06-20T11:36:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > When the upper classes correct other people’s grammar, they don’t do it to improve them, they do it to put them in their place. That’s quite the fine straw man you’ve constructed there. It’s certainly true that language is to some extent correlated with education and social standing, but that’s not the point here. First of all, I’ve never known anyone, ever, in real life who corrects someone else’s grammar. (We do it here on the Dope because it’s the Dope, and it’s all in fun.) And secondly, are you seriously trying to claim that a publication like **[_Fowler’s Dictionary of Modern English Usage_](https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/9780199661350.001.0001/acref-9780199661350)**, now in its fourth edition from the Oxford Reference Library, is not intended to educate but is merely an ignominious disparagement of alleged lower classes? Or that William Safire wrote his famed “On Language” column for the _New York Times_ merely to validate his societal pedigree? Standards in all forms of communication exist for good and valid practical reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Jebbilene](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jebbilene/32/3414_2.png) [@Jebbilene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jebbilene)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/177 "2024-06-20T11:49:33Z")
I agree with that but not entirely. Modern democracies make an effort to educate everyone to be able to use the standard version, though not everyone learns it equally well. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/178 "2024-06-20T12:11:07Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Here are 3 that pop into mind: > -Prescient/prescience > -Homage > > - Patina I never pronounce any of these, but I see “homage” often enough to know how I pronounce it in my head. It depends on how you’re using it. I read it as “paying HOMM-idge” to someone, but making an artistic “ooh-MAJ” to someone else’s work. I think it is because they scan better that way. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/179 "2024-06-20T12:20:16Z")
Boy is @wolfpup wrong on this linguistics stuff. He’s enjoyable in his wrongness. It’s some of the most entertaining wrongness I’ve seen recently. Please, keep it up! I want to read more of this fabulous wrongness! I do love you, wolfie, but sometimes your wrongness is absolutely hilarious, like when you insisted smartphones weren’t a type of computer: [Do you carry your cell phone with you at home? - #109 by wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-carry-your-cell-phone-with-you-at-home/999390/109) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135/180 "2024-06-20T12:47:17Z")
> [@Jebbilene](#): > > Modern democracies make an effort to educate everyone to be able to use the standard version, though not everyone learns it equally well. Which is based on a need for the participants in the democratic polity, to be able to participate in the business of the society, to understand what is being said and meant by the others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-bitching-about-language-pedantry-other-posters-language-and-language-in-general/1003135.md?page=10)