# For Christians.....a devotional **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257 "2002-12-21T20:07:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/1 "2002-12-21T20:07:47Z")
This was sent to me by an online Christian friend who lives in Florida. For some odd reason I feel like posting it here. THE RIGHT WORK Friday, December 20 John 12:32 “I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men to Me.” Many people have little understanding of the reason why Jesus Christ died. If sympathy is all that human beings need, then the Cross of Christ is a farce; there was no need for it. What the world needs is not “a little bit of love”. . .but a surgical operation. […] [Remainder deleted. Please see [this website](http://www.myutmost.org/12/1220.html) for the full text. – David B] ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/2 "2002-12-21T20:12:35Z")
His4Ever-I think the business about sympathy goes a little too far. You know you are opening up a can of worms, right? ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/3 "2002-12-21T20:17:48Z")
Would this be GD material? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Harvey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@Max\_Harvey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Harvey)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/4 "2002-12-21T20:22:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > **If we can help others by offering sympathy or understanding, we are a traitor to Christ.** I agree with **Meatros** , this seems to be the exact opposite of what Jesus taught. I could understand the harm of _just_ offering “sympathy or understanding” if someone needs a lot more than that. Buf if it actually helps them, how could that possibly be wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/5 "2002-12-21T20:31:26Z")
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. Jesus — John 13:34 Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers! Jesus — Matthew 7:15-23 ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/6 "2002-12-21T20:34:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ringo \* > \*\*Would this be GD material? \*\* Why would it be GD material? If you aren’t a Christian, isn’t it mundane and/or pointless? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/7 "2002-12-21T20:35:58Z")
Not necessarily. Don’t forget that a lot of those wolves are voters. And they vote for oppression and tyranny. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/8 "2002-12-21T20:39:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Not necessarily. Don’t forget that a lot of those wolves are voters. And they vote for oppression and tyranny. \*\* You just flew over my head… ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/9 "2002-12-21T20:40:03Z")
I thought witnessing was supposed to be limited to Great Debates (if you must). ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/10 "2002-12-21T20:45:40Z")
It looks to me like **Lib** is talking about the religious rightists, but I could be mistaken. I frequently am. On preview: good point, **featherlou** , I guess I just didn’t see it as witnessing! Besides, it’s obviously not my decision to make anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/11 "2002-12-21T20:49:42Z")
::checks OP for some sort of “love … God … God loves you … Christ loves you … Christ died on the cross for you because he and his daddy love you” thing.:: ::finds nothing of the sort:: ::goes off to teach Babe the Pig to sing:: ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/12 "2002-12-21T20:52:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*If we can help others by offering sympathy or understanding, we are a traitor to Christ. > > The one thing we have to do is exhibit Christ crucified, to lift Him up at every opportunity.\*\* Er… Thanks. I really appreciate the sentiment. I think. Whatever it was. On second thought, no thanks. I’ll pass. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/13 "2002-12-21T20:56:27Z")
Sigh. God convicts peopel of their sins, not any humans. God reaches out in love. Jesus died on the cross to show us specifically that He loves us, not that we better shape up bad sinners, or else! Libertarian shows more of Jesus on this message board than His4Ever. And so does gobear! ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/14 "2002-12-21T20:59:20Z")
_“For some odd reason…”_ It’s called self-flagellation. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/15 "2002-12-21T21:00:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ringo \* > \*\*Would this be GD material? \*\* Looks more like rubbish to me. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/16 "2002-12-21T21:04:53Z")
Just a minor nit. It wasn’t a cross. The Greek word _stauros_, which in Latin is _crux_, is mistranslated as “cross.” In the classical Greek the word _stauros_ meant merely an upright stake, or pale, or a pile such as is used for a foundation. The verb _stauroo_ meant to fence with pales, to form a stockade, or palisade, and this is the verb used when the mob called for Jesus to be impaled. What word did the Bible writers use? They used the Greek noun _stauros_ 27 times and the verbs _stauroo_ 46 times, _synstauroo_ (the prefix syn, meaning “with”) 5 times, and _anastauroo_ (a·na’, meaning “again”) once. They also used the Greek word _xylon_, meaning “wood,” 5 times to refer to the torture instrument upon which Jesus was nailed. _Das Kreuz und die Kreuzigung_ (The Cross and the Crucifixion), by Hermann Fulda, Breslau, 1878, p. 109, 219, 220 > [@](#): > > Trees were not everywhere available at the places chosen for public execution. So a simple beam was sunk into the ground. On this the outlaws, with hands raised upward and often also with their feet, were bound or nailed… Jesus died on a simple death-stake: In support of this there speak (a) the then customary usage of this means of execution in the Orient, (b) indirectly the history itself of Jesus’ sufferings and © many expressions of the early church fathers. _The Non-Christian Cross_, by John Denham Parsons, London, 1896, pp. 23, 24. > [@](#): > > There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together in the form of a cross. . . . it is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word stauros as “cross” when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue, and to support that action by putting “cross” in our lexicons as the meaning of stauros without carefully explaining that that was at any rate not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles, did not become its primary signification till long afterwards, and became so then, if at all, only because, despite the absence of corroborative evidence, it was for some reason or other assumed that the particular stauros upon which Jesus was executed had that particular shape. But, my biggest nit is with your reasoning. > [@](#): > > _from his4ever_ > If we can help others by offering sympathy or understanding, we are a traitor to Christ. How does this fit with what the Apostle said? _Galatians 6:2_ > [@](#): > > Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ. _Romans 14:10_ > [@](#): > > But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God. Or what Jesus himself said? _Matthew 7:1-5_ > [@](#): > > Stop judging that YOU may not be judged; for with what judgment YOU are judging, YOU will be judged; and with the measure that YOU are measuring out, they will measure out to YOU. Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, “Allow me to extract the straw from your eye”; when, look! a rafter is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First extract the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to extract the straw from your brother’s eye. I actually don’t like doing this to you, because you seem sincere. But, I’ve read enough of your posts to see that you just might be misinformed. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/17 "2002-12-21T21:08:13Z")
If someone thinks this is in the wrong forum, feel free to move it. I didn’t post it as a debate, merely as a devotional for other Christians to look at. This is directed at them. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/18 "2002-12-21T21:18:53Z")
Since you only seem to consider Joe\_Cool and JerseyDiamond as fellow Christians (and perhaps lel), then you could have just emailed them. You did this to further you own delusions of martyrdom on the boards. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/19 "2002-12-21T21:21:34Z")
But, **H4E** , I don’t agree with what was posted by you as being very Christian. > [@](#): > > _from THE BIBLE! Mark 12: 28-31_ > > Now one of the scribes that had come up and heard them disputing, knowing that he had answered them in a fine way, asked him: “Which commandment is first of all?” Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, The Lord our God is one God, and you must love The Lord your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’ The second is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” Following Christ = love of neighbor. Not following Christ = misguided devotionals. Okay, after 3 months of reading you, I think I see why the others take umbrage at almost anything you say. You’re hurting yourself and your own faith. My opinion. ---
**Author:** ![ThatGuyWithPants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@ThatGuyWithPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatGuyWithPants)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/20 "2002-12-21T21:23:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*Sigh. > God convicts peopel of their sins, not any humans. > God reaches out in love. > Jesus died on the cross to show us specifically that He loves us, not that we better shape up bad sinners, or else! > > Libertarian shows more of Jesus on this message board than His4Ever. > And so does gobear! \*\* Not to agree or disagree with what you said, but I do find what you said out of line. If you have a point you want to share, go for it… but bashing someones spirituality is kinda harsh dont you think? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257.md?page=2)