# For Christians.....a devotional **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257 "2002-12-21T20:07:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/201 "2002-12-28T20:07:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > Teaching others to fear God is not the point, in my **humble** view. Are you sure you know what the (bolding mine) word means? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/202 "2002-12-28T20:23:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course, if you don’t see the Bible as an authority, as you don’t, then nothing more can be said. Those who do not recognize the Bible as an authority are in good company: Then Jesus came to them and said, “ **All** authority in heaven and on earth has been given to **me**.” (Matthew 28:18 — bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/203 "2002-12-28T21:43:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > **Esprix** , why are you happy not to be a christian? > Because lots of his followers seem to be not nice? > Or …what? > I am curious vanilla Perhaps one of the reasons is also a reason I am at times very happy not to be a Christian: I don’t have to worry about someone else making me look bad because s/he is doing more harm than good. And doesn’t see it. And keeps on doing more harm than good. ---
**Author:** ![Scotticher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Scotticher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scotticher)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/204 "2002-12-29T00:56:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > **I see that you’re still misunderstanding.** If you are saying that I (and others) are misunderstanding you, then I challenge you to re-read your posts on this board. I think some of us are understanding you VERY well…and that it is YOU who is not understanding. > [@](#): > > How in the world can it be damaging to try and convert or win people to the only Savior their soul can ever know?? This is the teaching of the Bible, not mine. Um…NO, that is NOT what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that you are to present the good news of salvation, and the HOLY SPIRIT will take it from there. Where do you get OFF thinking that YOU can CONVERT anyone? So, in the name of all that is Holy and Righteous, by all means PRESENT THE GOOD NEWS! And then LET IT GO and be dealt with by the Lord…since it is, after all, HIS JOB and NOT YOURS!!! I don’t have a problem with you saying we are all sinners and the eventual consequence of sin (without the grace of God’s redemption) is eternal separation from God. I agree with you. If you get challenged, and of course you WILL, then all you have to say is that this is what the Bible teaches, and what you believe. And that, out of love, you want to share the good news that God loves us and has provided a way to prevent eternal separation from Him. It is WRONG, and NOT Biblical, to at that point start flailing about with a fiery, flaming baseball bat…screaming "YOU ARE A HATEFUL SINNER AND YOU ARE GOING TO HELL UNLESS YOU DON’T IMMEDIATELY REPENT! YOU ARE SINNING BY [insert whatever sin this person to whom you are speaking is committing in your opinion]!!! IF YOU CONTINUE TO DO THIS YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!!! See the thing is, we ALL sin and come short of the glory of God!!! Can you PLEASE get that through your head? YOU don’t have to name a person’s sins, because it DOESN’T MATTER what their sin is, sin is all the same in God’s eyes and WE ALL SIN!!! Listen, sister, I have news for you. Your sin’s are just as bad in God’s eyes as everyone else’s. The ONLY difference is that YOU have asked for God’s forgiveness and have received it…not through anything YOU have done, but because of the death and resurrection of God’s son…who graciously did this for us so that when God LOOKS at us, he doesn’t see US…He sees us _through_ CHRIST…who has paid the price for OUR sin. THUS…"By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast (Eph. 2:8-9). That would be, BTW, **GOD’s** GRACE, through the gift of His Son. Having NOTHING to do with you, except the fact that you have accepted it. > [@](#): > > There is no hardness or lack of compassion in those who seek to win the lost. It’s because they have love and compassion and know God’s word that they do so. If you truly believe this. then may I suggest to you that maybe it isn’t the MESSAGE you bring that is so abhorrent to people…maybe, just MAYBE…it is the PRESENTATION? > [@](#): > > Of course, if you don’t see the Bible as an authority, as you don’t, then nothing more can be said. _Here’s_ a funny thing…I DO see the Bible as an authority. > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t put my faith in that, but in God’s sure word. He should know what’s in the afterlife, after all He’s God. YES!!! You might actually be GETTING IT!!! It is GOD’S place to judge…NOT YOURS!!! So how about just LETTING HIM DO IT and presenting His words without appearing to condemn everyone you run into? And…it sure SOUNDS LIKE you’re condemning others, whether or not that’s your intent in saying what you have. I know it doesn’t sound like it, **His4ever** , but I assure you…I have prayed about this, and I am personally convicted to try to make you SEE what you are doing. I wish it wasn’t in such a public manner, but I don’t feel I have any other choice. With Love, Cheri ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/205 "2002-12-29T00:59:33Z")
You made **Scotti** type in caps and use multiple exclamation marks!!! This **cannot** be a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/206 "2002-12-29T01:13:54Z")
Bravo!!! **His** , I sincerely hope that you are not seeing us as personally hostile to you or to the Christian message. And I’m aware that you feel compelled to present, out of a sense of responsibility and caring for others, the way in which they can be saved from an eternity of torture. But what dozens of us have said, and **Scotti** has laid out in blatant detail, is that **you look like you’re sitting in judgment over the sins of others, while claiming God’s mercy over your own.** That may be the furthest thing from your mind; I personally am convinced that your intentions are good. But, damn it, **what you’re doing is not working**. It’s having the **opposite effect**. (And just for the record, I was not swearing; the use of that curse was intentional and with the precise theological meaning for which that word is proper.) Your job, like **Joe Cool** ’s and **Scotti** ’s and mine, is to _proclaim the Good News_ and to interact with others in a way that they can see Christ in what you do. I think all four of us fall short of that goal from time to time – but I know that the other three of us are acutely aware of that failure and trying our best to rectify it, with God’s help. If you hear nothing else from this, please hear me in Christian love appealing to you, if you cannot bring yourself to post of the Good News of God’s redeeming love, at least stop posting of His wrath in ways that are driving people away from Him. I’m sorry to put it that way, and at least a few of my friends here know what you’re trying to do and support you in it, but this is a case where doing His will matters more than the courtesy due a lady who is trying to do good – as you love those who are perishing, please stop putting blocks in their path! ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/207 "2002-12-29T02:22:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scotticher \* > \*\* > > It is WRONG, and NOT Biblical, to at that point start flailing about with a fiery, flaming baseball bat…screaming "YOU ARE A HATEFUL SINNER AND YOU ARE GOING TO HELL UNLESS YOU DON’T IMMEDIATELY REPENT! YOU ARE SINNING BY [insert whatever sin this person to whom you are speaking is committing in your opinion]!!! IF YOU CONTINUE TO DO THIS YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!!! > \*\* I do not feel that this is what I’m doing. I don’t think this accusation is warranted but I can’t stop you. I was simply answering a post by **Lekatt**. I don’t believe his teachings to be the truth and I believe they are misleading people about the afterlife. So, if I care about people, shouldn’t I say something? ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/208 "2002-12-29T02:31:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I was simply answering a post by **Lekatt**. I don’t believe his teachings to be the truth and I believe they are misleading people about the afterlife. So, if I care about people, shouldn’t I say something? \*\* Many of your fellow Christians believe that the manner in which you present your deity is both untruthful and misleading. If you are coming across to those who share your basic beliefs as both self-righteous and judgemental, can you even begin to imagine how the manner in which you present yourself (as a living example of your faith), your beliefs, and your diety comes across to those who have not yet discovered any reason to have faith? ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/209 "2002-12-29T02:42:19Z")
By the way, thanks for the advice, **Scotticher** , and keep up those prayers. Sighhh, I really wasn’t planning on posting or awhile but whenever **Lekatt** shows up and posts I just feel that I have to say something, I believe the Lord wants me to say something. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/210 "2002-12-29T02:49:42Z")
**His4ever** , I don’t agree with **lekatt’s** teachings at all, but I think what **Scotticher** is try to point out to you is that _we cannot condemn people to Hell._ I think that if someone asks you a question like: “Am I going to Hell because blah blah blah blah?” You should answer with scripture and let them decide for themselves. If they don’t like your answer, let them deal with God. I understand that **lekatt’s** teachings are frustrating you, but what you must realize is that he believes the bible to be just another book. We believe it is the word of God. You cannot debate what the Bible says with someone who doesn’t believe the Bible is the word of God. Remember, **His4ever** , what we must do as christians is spread the word of God! _Not only the bad, but the good too!!_ If someone is saying something that is not of the Bible, counter it with truth, but do not condemn anyone. God will judge them. God is Love, but He is also Just. I realize that **His4ever** may just show up in threads without some of you wanting her to be there, but I have also seen you guys bate her in. If you don’t like her answers, don’t ask her questions. If you want to see what she thinks about a certain issue, then at least realize that you asked. Be fair. This is, after all, what she believes. **His4ever** , stay strong. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/211 "2002-12-29T03:19:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\ ***His4ever** , I don’t agree with **lekatt’s** teachings at all, but I think what **Scotticher** is try to point out to you is that _we cannot condemn people to Hell._ > > I think that if someone asks you a question like: “Am I going to Hell because blah blah blah blah?” You should answer with scripture and let them decide for themselves. If they don’t like your answer, let them deal with God. > > I understand that **lekatt’s** teachings are frustrating you, but what you must realize is that he believes the bible to be just another book. We believe it is the word of God. You cannot debate what the Bible says with someone who doesn’t believe the Bible is the word of God. > > Remember, **His4ever** , what we must do as christians is spread the word of God! _Not only the bad, but the good too!!_ If someone is saying something that is not of the Bible, counter it with truth, but do not condemn anyone. God will judge them. > > God is Love, but He is also Just. > > I realize that **His4ever** may just show up in threads without some of you wanting her to be there, but I have also seen you guys bate her in. If you don’t like her answers, don’t ask her questions. > If you want to see what she thinks about a certain issue, then at least realize that you asked. Be fair. This is, after all, what she believes. > > **His4ever** , stay strong. 😉 \*\* Hello **Jersey Diamond**. Thanks for the advice and word of encouragement. I wasn’t aware that I had condemned any individual to hell in my posts. If I have, my apologies. I **have** shared what God says about certain things, but I don’t recall ever posting anything to the effect of “you’re going to hell.” The only reason I post a lot of what people may consider “the bad” is that I see people posting only “the good” and ignoring the other and saying it doesn’t exist. I feel the need to correct that error. Anyway, thanks **Jersey Diamond** , and I’d appreciate your parayers also. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/212 "2002-12-29T03:29:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*Hello **Jersey Diamond**. Thanks for the advice and word of encouragement. I wasn’t aware that I had condemned any individual to hell in my posts. If I have, my apologies. I **have** shared what God says about certain things, but I don’t recall ever posting anything to the effect of “you’re going to hell.” > \*\* You mean you don’t think that non christans are going to hell? ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/213 "2002-12-29T03:33:19Z")
**His4ever** , I haven’t personally seen you post anythng saying that \>insert name here\< is going to Hell, but some seem to think you have. I am not on the computer a lot, so I don’t always see every post, ya know?! Anyway, I apologize for assuming that you have posted something condemning people. I should have done a search. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/214 "2002-12-29T03:45:31Z")
**His4ever** Let’s examine your explanation that you are entirely driven by the desire to make sure everyone knows the truth. And let’s be entirely dependent upon the direct, literal, words of the bible (NIV, I think you usually quote.) And let us further resolve to accept only the example of our Lord and Savior, Jesus, himself. Now, what should we do, when someone asks us, “What is truth?” I anxiously await your reply. Tris ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/215 "2002-12-29T03:46:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sterra \* > \*\*You mean you don’t think that non christans are going to hell? \*\* I didn’t say that either. I hope I’m not being baited, as **Jersey** noted in her post) :rolleyes: All I will say is that the Bible teaches we only go to heaven through faith in Jesus and His shed blood for our sins and He rose again the third day. You must draw your own conclusions from that and argue it out with God if it isn’t pleasing to you. John 14:6 Acts 4:12 1 Timothy 2:5 1 Cor. 15:1-4 ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/216 "2002-12-29T03:57:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Triskadecamus \* > \*\ ***His4ever** > > Let’s examine your explanation that you are entirely driven by the desire to make sure everyone knows the truth. > > And let’s be entirely dependent upon the direct, literal, words of the bible (NIV, I think you usually quote.) And let us further resolve to accept only the example of our Lord and Savior, Jesus, himself. > > Now, what should we do, when someone asks us, “What is truth?” > > I anxiously await your reply. > > Tris \*\* I use the KJV of the Bible.🙂 Hmm, well Jesus said that He is the truth. Jesus in a prayer to the Father also said “thy word is truth.” Course there are other verses about His word being truth also. The Bible is the written word and Jesus is the living word is my understanding. This is talking about biblical and spiritual truth, tho. What we should answer people who ask what is truth, depends I guess on what subject they’re asking about. “What is the truth concerning \_\_\_\_\_\_?” for example. I’m assuming we’re talking about biblical truth. Why do I get the feeling I’m about to be shoved in a corner that I don’t know how to get out of? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/217 "2002-12-29T03:59:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > You cannot debate what the Bible says with someone who doesn’t believe the Bible is the word of God. Rubbish. Just because someone doesn’t believe a particular book isn’t sacred doesn’t make them all of a sudden completely illiterate. Going by your logic, then anyone who doesn’t believe the Book of Mormon, the Noble Qu’ran, the Upanishads, or any one of a number of other books sacred to those who believe them to be of divine origin can’t discuss it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/218 "2002-12-29T04:26:04Z")
Misspelling above. “[…] isn’t […]” should be “[…] is […].” Alternatively, you can replace “[…] doesn’t […]” with “[…] does […].” One or the other. Take your choice, but not both. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/219 "2002-12-29T04:39:20Z")
The main point is: who can judge, who is without sin, let him/her cast the first stone. > [@](#): > > [http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/contra.html](http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/contra.html) > The above list of thirty-three contradictions is a very small portion of the thousands of biblical discrepancies that have been catalogued by scholars. If this material is correct, and I believe it is mostly correct, then how can anyone say what is truth? In light of such profound ambiguity, confusion, doubt, can anyone say they know the real nature of God? If the Bible is truly God’s word as some believe, your God is unclear on almost every decision. This is not the God NDEers meet in their experiences. He is, instead, very precise, logical, and clear. He is love, compassion and truth. This is the reason I believe as I do. I know that everyone will be held responsible for their deeds, that is assured, but it is not our place to say what the corrections will be. Not ever. We will be much better off in the long run if we learn to love and accept the differences of others. Watching our own words and deeds, rather than those of our neighbors. It is important what you believe, to the extent that what you believe will determine how you see and treat others. If you are handing out love, expect love in return. Whatsoever ye sow, so shall ye reap. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Scotticher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Scotticher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scotticher)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/220 "2002-12-29T04:44:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\* All I will say is that the Bible teaches we only go to heaven through faith in Jesus and His shed blood for our sins and He rose again the third day. You must draw your own conclusions from that and argue it out with God if it isn’t pleasing to you. > > John 14:6 > Acts 4:12 > 1 Timothy 2:5 > 1 Cor. 15:1-4 \*\* I would like to quote Rex Harrison in "My Fair Lady’ (one of my favorite movies, BTW) “I DO believe she’s GOT it!” Honey, THANK YOU! Hang in there, it really IS the way to go… And of COURSE, my prayers are with you. I would appreciate yours, as well. I could use them, VERY much. My Love, Cheri [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257.md?page=12)