# For Christians.....a devotional **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257 "2002-12-21T20:07:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jonno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f19dbf/32.png) [@Jonno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonno)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/21 "2002-12-21T21:27:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > If we can help others by offering sympathy or understanding, we are a traitor to Christ. Well then spank my ass and call me a traitor. If God doesn’t like me being sympathetic and understanding, he can kiss my little white butt. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ThatGuyWithPants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@ThatGuyWithPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatGuyWithPants)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/22 "2002-12-21T21:31:55Z")
Yeah yeah yeah I know what I said was confusing. What I meant was that I understood what was said, and not that I agree or disagree with it, I think it was on the rude side. thats what I meant. sorry bout that. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/23 "2002-12-21T21:35:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > **God convicts peopel of their sins, not any humans. > God reaches out in love.** I definitely agree, but sometimes God uses humans to convict people of sin. > [@](#): > > Jesus died on the cross to show us specifically that He loves us, not that we better shape up bad sinners, or else! There’s other ways of showing someone that you love them besides getting yourself crucified. **Homebrew** , I’m just a delusional Pharisee. I believe that God is love, yet rarely love God or others myself. I believe that one should believe that Jesus died to atone us from sin, but I can’t seem to truly believe in Jesus and am terrified of having a relationship with Him. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/24 "2002-12-21T21:38:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*If someone thinks this is in the wrong forum, feel free to move it. I didn’t post it as a debate, merely as a devotional for other Christians to look at. This is directed at them. \*\* GD is the place for not only debates but religious witnessing AKA proselytizing. A devotional is a witness to God/Christ/some other religious figure (usually Christian), no? **NoClueBoy** , thank you for that most enlightening look at what may be (as much as I’d love to automatically believe you, I think you can understand why I’m initially a bit skeptical of this post of yours:)) a slight but important mistranslation of those words:) Very interesting. I’d be interested in seeing what some of the other Christian dopers have to say about this. It’s not that I doubt you; that a word or phrase went mistranslated in the Bible is not uncommon at all (depending, of course, on your POV on which particular translation is truer to the original meaning and intent of the texts:D), but as with any statement of such, I think it only dutiful to closely examine it. Perhaps a GD thread is in order? Though I’m not the person to start it, as I know about as much about the exegesis of Biblical Greek as I know about the 1895 Boston Red Sox;) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/25 "2002-12-21T21:43:09Z")
> [@](#): > > _from the [Forum Descritions:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/index.php)_ > > This is also the place for religious debates and (if you feel you must) witnessing. Off to Great Debates. **DrMatrix** - SDMB Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/26 "2002-12-21T21:47:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > **The calling of a New Testament believer is to uncover sin and to reveal Jesus Christ as Savior; we cannot be poetical, we must be sternly surgical.** Is there any scriptural support for this role for Christians as Grand Accuser of everyone around them? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/27 "2002-12-21T21:47:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > Many people have little understanding of the reason why Jesus Christ died. If sympathy is all that human beings need, then the Cross of Christ is a farce; there was no need for it…If we can help others by offering sympathy or understanding, we are a traitor to Christ. And Scripture says that man cannot live by bread alone. So if we can help others by offering food or drink, are we then a traitor to Christ? I think we can all figure that one out. > [@](#): > > What the world needs is not “a little bit of love”. . .but a surgical operation. Scripture says God is love. IMHO, whosoever has a problem with love, has a problem with God. > [@](#): > > The one thing we have to do is exhibit Christ crucified, to lift Him up at every opportunity. Every doctrine that is not imbedded in the Cross of Christ will lead astray. I agree with this. > [@](#): > > If we believe in Jesus Christ and we are banking on the Reality of Redemption, the people we talk to must realize their need for a Savior. Or we could just love people, as He has called us to do, and let Him worry about their salvation. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/28 "2002-12-21T21:52:17Z")
NoClueBoy is correct that the term used is derived from [symbol]stauros[/symbol], but the controversy that was raised in the 1800s has since been pretty well settled [archeologically](http://www.uncc.edu/jdtabor/crucifixion.html). There were three basic kinds of Roman crosses: (1) the High Tau, which was shaped like this — T ; (2) the Low Tau, which was shaped like this — †; and (3) a tree. It is generally believed that Jesus was crucified on a Low Tau. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/29 "2002-12-21T21:53:08Z")
Thanks **iampunha** , but I really don’t know that much myself, I just have a good library. And a short attent… Ooh, look! Monkeys! …ion span. That was my minor nit, btw. The major one is the perceived attitude. **RT Firefly** makes a great point at the end of his post. Encompasses most of what else I might add. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/30 "2002-12-21T21:54:48Z")
I would sooner this were in the Pit. I was nearly driven away from Christ by those who offered no sympathy or understanding; it was those who did who kept me near. Look at the top of MPSIMS! Sympathy and understanding are creating a miracle even as I type! I know of at least 3 Dopers who were looking at a bleak Christmas who are now filled with joy and hope! **His4Ever** , read the entire context of the verse you quoted. It refers directly to an event in Christ’s life which was about to come. Also, since you’re so fond of Paul’s letters, I recommend to you once again, 1 Corinthians 13:1 to 3, which ends, “if I have no love, I am one the better.” Christ consistently showed sympathy and understanding to the lowest and least respectable people. His wrath was reserved for the Pharisees and hypocrites. Please, lass, it’s Christmas. Spare me your surgery which kills the soul by distorting the message of He who took the trouble to be human that He might fully understand and love us. Spare me your message of darkness in this season of light. CJ ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/31 "2002-12-21T21:57:06Z")
While we’re debating this now, I wonder how this meshes with the request for unity amongst those who profess to follow Christ, as seen in [Ephesians 4](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=EPH+4&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on). While one may need to speak the truth, should followers of Christ speak the truth at the expense of dividing the body of Christ? After all, those who profess Christ do tend to be united on the need for love – should that then be emphasized? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/32 "2002-12-21T21:58:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*If we can help others by offering sympathy or understanding, we are a traitor to Christ. \*\* > [@](#): > > . Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ "Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/33 "2002-12-21T22:05:03Z")
Or, if you’d prefer Paul, > [@](#): > > Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/34 "2002-12-21T22:05:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*We are sent by God to lift up Jesus Christ, not to give wonderfully beautiful discourses. \*\* That is apparently the case. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/35 "2002-12-21T22:15:18Z")
> [@](#): > > _from Libertarians site link_ > > If, however, the victims are tied with their hands extended over their heads and left hanging, death can occur within an hour or, in minutes if the victims legs are nailed so that he cannot use his arms to elevate the body to exhale. For exhaling to occur in a normal manner two sets of muscles are needed, the diaphragm and. the intercostalis muscles between the ribs. With the victims being suspended by their arms directly over their heads, these sets of muscles cannot function properly which results in the victims inability to exhale and results in asphyxiation. Eyewitness accounts by prisoners of war in Dacchu during WWII reported that victims suspended from beams by their wrist, which were tied, expired within ten minutes if their feet were weighted or tied down and within one hour if their feet were unweighted and the victim was able to raise and lower himself to permit respiration. Death in this manner, which is one form of crucifixion, was the result of suffocation. This method does seem to fit the Biblical acount better than the outstretched arms method. So I don’t see that it was either proved or not. However, I have to concede that I could be completely wrong about that. When this thread started in MPSIMS, it seemed appropriate to bring up that side point about the cross. Now that we are in GD, I won’t sidetrack us any more. (great site, **Lib** , and I’m not being sarcastic) **--------------------------------------------** The real issue seems to me to be whether Christians should be so unempathtic about suffering. Even while on Earth, The Christ performed many deeds of healing without requiring anything of them. And, look at his attitude: _Matthew 15:32_ > [@](#): > > But Jesus called his disciples to him and said: “I feel pity for the crowd, because it is already three days that they have stayed with me and they have nothing to eat; and I do not want to send them away fasting. They may possibly give out on the road.” _Matthew 20:34_ > [@](#): > > Moved with pity, Jesus touched their eyes, and immediately they received sight, and they followed him. Seems pretty sympathetic and understanding to me. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/36 "2002-12-21T22:22:02Z")
Since this is now in GD, I thought I’d counter with a paragraph from my church’s daily devotionals, as published in [Forward Day by Day](http://www.forwardmovement.org). This is from Thursday’s commentary on that day’s reading from the Gospel, Matthew 3:1-12. Matthew 3:1-2 are quoted at the top of the devotional: > [@](#): > > In those days John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness of Judea, proclaiming, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” Out of respect for copyright restrictions, I won’t quote the entire devotional, but I will quote the last paragraph: > [@](#): > > Rather than seeming to take all the fun out of lie, the Advent call to repent is like a doorway to hop. By God’s grace, swords really can be beaten into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks. By God’s grace, yesterday’s sins are matters for confession and forgiveness. What God wants is that we embrace the hope that Christ brings with each new day. This won’t surprise anyone, I know, but I’ll take my devotionals, thank you. Among other things, I trust them to completely cover the Bible, and I am free to expand my readings beyond what’s immediately covered if I’m struggling with something. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/37 "2002-12-21T22:24:13Z")
Excuse me. The first line of the section I quoted from the devotional should read, “Rather than seeming to take all the fun out of **life** ,” not “lie”. Now if only something could take all the typos out of my posts! CJ ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/38 "2002-12-21T22:26:24Z")
I think George Carlin said it best: "Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky… Who watches every thing you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of 10 specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time. But he loves you. And he needs money." ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/39 "2002-12-21T22:29:17Z")
A 1st century Christian call for sympathy and understanding: _Romans 12:15_ > [@](#): > > Rejoice with people who rejoice; weep with people who weep. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/40 "2002-12-21T22:37:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > The calling of a New Testament believer is to uncover sin Could you please back this up **His4ever** with a scriptural cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257.md?page=3)