# For Christians.....a devotional **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257 "2002-12-21T20:07:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/41 "2002-12-21T22:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cjhoworth \* > \*\*Excuse me. The first line of the section I quoted from the devotional should read, “Rather than seeming to take all the fun out of **life** ,” not “lie”. Now if only something could take all the typos out of my posts! > > CJ \*\* I think you were right the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/42 "2002-12-21T23:04:37Z")
This bears repeating: _“whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me”_ Matthew 25:45 **His4ever** - you really need to re-examine your Christianity. You are not remaking yourself in Jesus’ image - you are _remaking him in your image_. One of these days you _will_ be before the Lord to answer for your sins. And he will say to you: _I told you to “Judge not lest you be judged”_. I told you "Let he who is without sins throw the first stone. "\*\* I told you “You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye”\*\*\* Just how many times did I have to tell you to work on your own sins and leave the sins of others to me? And you have committed sins - there is no one who does not sin. I told you to treat others as you want to be treated. Now you will be treated by me the way you have treated the least of these brothers of mine. \* **His4ever** meditate on this - when the time comes that your actions are weighed, and your fate is determined, do you really want to be treated the way you have treated people? Because all I see from your behavior is that you abuse people by hating and reviling them for their sins. And to spend the rest of eternity being hated and reviled for the sins that you have commited sounds like Hell to me. - Matthew 7:1, Luke 6:37 \*\* John 8:7 \*\*\* Matthew 7:5, Luke 6:42\*\*\*\* \*\*\*\* Obviously the answer to life, the universe and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/43 "2002-12-21T23:13:27Z")
> [@](#): > > I definitely agree, but sometimes God uses humans to convict people of sin Okay, I’ll bite, which humans are worthy to act as God in order to judge others of sin? Are you talking about trials and juries and such? That isn’t convicting people of SIN that’s convicting people of breaking the LAW. Our country has a system of laws for its citizens which do not necessarily reflect the various sins of the religious represented by its citizens, they are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/44 "2002-12-21T23:22:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Glory \* > \*\*Okay, I’ll bite, which humans are worthy to act as God in order to judge others of sin? > > Are you talking about trials and juries and such? That isn’t convicting people of SIN that’s convicting people of breaking the LAW. > > Our country has a system of laws for its citizens which do not necessarily reflect the various sins of the religious represented by its citizens, they are two different things. \*\* Being “convicted” of sin is fundamentalist jargon. It means a sort of a personal realization that something you are doing is sinful and it is often seen as a necessary step to coming out of that sin and recieving forgiveness from Christ for it. It has nothing to do with being caught and tried for a legal transgression. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/45 "2002-12-22T01:11:47Z")
I don’t think His4Ever actaully wrote this (if I’m wrong, I apologize), I think it was forwarded to her and she thought it was nice (somehow) and decided that some other people would like to see it, so instead of sending it to people on her email list she posted it here. More people would see it and she would feel she has spread the word. I truly hope she misunderstood the devotional and did not pick up on the sympathy passage. I could be wrong of course, but I’m hoping for the best until His4Ever chooses to explain what she thought we would get out of this. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/46 "2002-12-22T01:47:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > **I don’t think His4Ever actaully wrote this (if I’m wrong, I apologize), I think it was forwarded to her and she thought it was nice (somehow) and decided that some other people would like to see it, so instead of sending it to people on her email list she posted it here. More people would see it and she would feel she has spread the word.** The OP strongly implies that she didn’t write it. And the cynical side of me says that she posted it as support for her sit-and-judge style of Christianity. While undoubtedly there are many out there who, like her, feel it is their mandate to call out all the specks in all the eyes they can, it still doesn’t make it right. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/47 "2002-12-22T01:54:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Lao \* > \*\*The OP strongly implies that she didn’t write it. And the cynical side of me says that she posted it as support for her sit-and-judge style of Christianity. While undoubtedly there are many out there who, like her, feel it is their mandate to call out all the specks in all the eyes they can, it still doesn’t make it right. \*\* I agree with what your saying, but I still have to believe that she’s not intentionally pushing the issue; bringing it up in someone else’s debate, to show what she believes is one thing, but starting a post condemning people for sympathizing is, IMHO, another thing entirely (it makes me think she intentionally likes to judge people-gets off on it in a way). I think I want to have faith that she misread or misinterpreted the letter/email/electronic junk. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/48 "2002-12-22T02:57:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\*Could you please back this up **His4ever** with a scriptural cite? \*\* This is about the closest I can come at the moment. 2 Timothy 3:16 - All scipture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for **reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness**. Ezekiel 3:18-19 could probably be applied also. Concerning the issue of pity and sympathy, I didn’t take the devotional to mean that Oswald Chambers (the man who wrote it) meant to never show any sympathy to anyone. I took it to be saying that people that are caught up in lives of sin don’t need our pity and sympathy, they need to have their need of Christ held up to them and be told the truth about what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Sdrawkcab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sdrawkcab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sdrawkcab)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/49 "2002-12-22T03:03:28Z")
Wow. There’s a lot that one could say about this satanic devotional. Sadly, most of it would require moving this thread to the pits. Which is where it belongs anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/50 "2002-12-22T03:04:26Z")
I don’t recall seeing much of **His4ever** in the past few days. I suspect she has taken some of what she has been told on this board to her spiritual advisors, and this is the result. A reiteration of shallow, judgemental, vicious and mean-spirited Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/51 "2002-12-22T03:07:24Z")
This board isn’t the center of my life, you know. I have other things to do and don’t always post a lot which, and other boards that I go to. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/52 "2002-12-22T03:10:35Z")
I’d still like to read more about what _you_ think about this devotional and how you respond to some of the points which have been raised in this thread. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/53 "2002-12-22T03:10:49Z")
Fine job of finger-pointing merciless judging there, babe. > [@](#): > > \*\*I took it to be saying that people that are caught up in lives of sin don’t need our pity and sympathy, they need to have their need of Christ held up to them \*\* The mind boggles. Did you hear _anything_ Jesus said? > [@](#): > > Matthew 7 > 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. > 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. > 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? > 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? > 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye. And… > [@](#): > > 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? > 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. > 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. > 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. > 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Your particular tree is bringing forth nothing but self-righteous judgemental snootiness. Pretty rotten fruit, IMO. Meatros: I don’t think she thought it through at all. I think the OP and her second post probably describe exactly what [little] went through her head: > [@](#): > > **This was sent to me…I feel like posting it here…I didn’t post it as a debate, merely as a devotional for other Christians to look at.** In other words, she was forwarding her Christian e-mail Inboxer Rebellion-type glurge to us, the same way she’d forward it to anybody else–with scarcely a thought and only a couple of mouse clicks. And allow me to say that I feel privileged to receive it the same way I feel privileged to receive any of the other Christian e-mail Inboxer Rebellion-type glurge people forward to me … —\> **"** :rolleyes: **"** > [@](#): > > \*\*I have other things to do…and other boards that I go to. \*\*Please, by all means, go and haunt some other unfortunate message board with your totally unwelcome, completely un-Christian smugness. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/54 "2002-12-22T03:25:58Z")
I think I shall go back to the polycarp thread. Much more of Gods love evident there. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/55 "2002-12-22T03:26:03Z")
Contrary to popular opinion, I feel no smugness or superiority or whatever. I just decided to share something with other Christians on the board. You’re free to think of it however you wish. **CJ** I’ve already said what I believe Mr. Chambers meant by his remarks on pity and sympathy. I’m not attempting to judge anyone, though you won’t believe that, of course. Here’s a couple of sentences that come right after the one on pity and sympathy. They’re from my personal devotional and are worded slightly different than the one I got in the e mail. “You must have a right-standing relationship with Him yourself, and pour your life out in helping others in **His way** –not in a human way that ignores God. The theme of the world’s religion today is to serve in a pleasant, non-confrontational manner.” Oswald Chambers. That’s kind of how it is, heaven forbid thay we should offend anyone so let’s not tell the whole truth or lets’ water it down a bit, etc. etc. Anyway, that’s all I’ve got to say right now. Have a nice evening and Merry Christmas to all. \<\>\< † ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/56 "2002-12-22T03:34:07Z")
Link to the original devotional. [http://www.myutmost.org/12/1220.html](http://www.myutmost.org/12/1220.html) BTW, babe, it’s copyrighted. From the website’s home page. [http://www.myutmost.org/index.html](http://www.myutmost.org/index.html) > [@](#): > > Oswald Chambers (1874-1917) was a Scottish minister and teacher whose teachings on the life of faith and abandonment to God have endured to this day. > > This daily devotional is a collection of his teachings compiled by his wife into a daily devotional format. It’s presented here in the original English. His wife’s comments may be found in the Foreword. > > We publish this with the prayer that Oswald Chambers’ teachings will help you grow in your walk with Christ. > > Taken from My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers. © l935 by Dodd Mead & Co., renewed © 1963 by the Oswald Chambers Publications Assn., Ltd., and is used by permission of Discovery House Publishers, Box 3566, Grand Rapids MI 4950l. All rights reserved. You’ll notice that your glurge version has been rewritten slightly, the old “word substitution” game familiar to every schoolkid who’s had to crib a term paper from the World Book Encyclopedia. I suppose that whoever put it out on the Internet forwarding circuit thought that this was a way to get around the copyright violation thing. However, IMO they’re wrong. Therefore, I am duly reporting your OP to a moderator as being in violation of this message board’s copyright policy. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/57 "2002-12-22T03:34:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cjhoworth \* > \*\*I’d still like to read more about what _you_ think about this devotional and how you respond to some of the points which have been raised in this thread. > \*\* Poor **His4evr**. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! But, really **H4e** , you will not win over any one to the Christ by acting so judgemental and self righteous. Or by posting something that seems to foster and suport such a viewpoint. Remember the warning: “Watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees.” The Bible, should anyone choose to accept it, teaches that Man is imperfect and needs God. But, it also teaches love. _1 John 4:7-10_ > [@](#): > > Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God and gains the knowledge of God. He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him. The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent forth his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins. In science debates, a point is often worthless without a referenced cite. In a Biblical debate, the Bible must be used. Somewhere. What kind of response did you think you would get by posting something that Christians and non Christians may find offensive or, at least debatable? * * * Well, on preview I saw the reply to cjhoworth, but I’m posting these points anyways. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/58 "2002-12-22T03:44:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\* > > Therefore, I am duly reporting your OP to a moderator as being in violation of this message board’s copyright policy. \*\* I had no idea I was violating any copyright laws by copying and pasting an e mail that was sent to me. If it’s in violation, my apologies. I thought that I’d included Oswald Chambers’ name in the post, I see that I didn’t. My mistake. Once again, apologies for any violations. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/59 "2002-12-22T03:47:26Z")
[Moderator Hat: ON] His4Ever: Is copyright violation a sin? On this website, the answer is an emphatic **yes**. Before forwarding something on in the future, please make sure it’s not copyrighted material. * * * David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator [Moderator Hat: OFF] ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/60 "2002-12-22T03:49:55Z")
Excellent advice, **David B**. Is it okay to post something if you include the author’s name? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257.md?page=4)