# For Christians.....a devotional **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257 "2002-12-21T20:07:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/81 "2002-12-22T07:03:25Z")
**His4Ever** Your posts fill me with rage. I am sorry. Your sanctimonious self congratulation kindles in my heart a bitter anger. Please forgive me. One day, the Lord will reconcile us. And on that day He will ask me how I could stand idly by, while someone reviled his beloved children with promises that He would not give them love. And I will weep, and ask Him to forgive me. And He will. And on that day, He will look at you, and ask, “Where are the lambs who came to you, seeking word of My love?” What will you say? Let us cry together. **Everyone Else** Jesus loves you. It’s not a trick. It isn’t a club. You don’t have to deserve it. There isn’t a secret word, or a magic phrase. He loves you. He wants you to be with Him forever. And He is the only one who knows your heart, and what is in it. No one else’s opinion on the matter is of any importance at all. Just try to love each soul you meet as if that soul were God Himself. And one day, it will be. ## Tris “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.” ~ Martin Luther King, Jr. ~ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/82 "2002-12-22T07:08:22Z")
ummm **Rootbeer!** :D:D:D **iampunha** , that’s great news about Poly. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/83 "2002-12-22T10:47:37Z")
Maybe, **His4ever** , you will finally answer this question, assuming that you’ve seen it the other 50 times it’s been asked of you on the boards: What would it take for you to realize that your attempts at witnessing on this board have done more harm than good, and that the only good has come from other people refuting nearly everything you’ve posted? And further, at what point would you change your methods to better serve God? You’ve seen people outright say that you’re driving them _from_ God, which I dearly hope is not your intended purpose. [sub]How can you love a God who hates?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/84 "2002-12-22T10:56:20Z")
Jack Batty wrote (quoting Carlin): > [@](#): > > Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky… It hasn’t convinced me of that. * * * His4ever wrote: > [@](#): > > I took it to be saying that people that are caught up in lives of sin don’t need our pity and sympathy, they need to have their need of Christ held up to them and be told the truth about what they’re doing. We’ve been _trying_ to tell you what you are doing. You just won’t listen. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/85 "2002-12-22T11:11:17Z")
**His4Ever** , you’re very fond of using scripture to condemn people. Just for the sake of mental exercise, I checked all the times people cited scripture in this thread showing that they disagreed with Mr. Chambers interpretation. I came up with 24 passages cited, not counting duplicates. Here’s the list, in order as they appear in _The New English Bible_:[ul] **Old Testament** [li]Ezekiel 3:16-19[/li][li]Ezekiel 3:4-6[/li] **Gospels** [li]Matthew 7:15-23[/li][li]Matthew 15:32 [/li][li]Matthew 20:34 [/li][li]Matthew 25:45[/li][li]Mark 12: 28-31[/li][li]Luke 6:37[/li][li]Luke 6:42[/li][li]Luke 9:57-62[/li][li]John 8:7[/li][li]John 13:34[/li] **Epistles** [li]Romans 12:15 [/li][li]Romans 14:10[/li][li]Galatians 6:2[/li][li]1 Timothy 4:12[/li][li]2 Timothy 2:24-25[/li][li]2 Timothy 3:17 [/li][li]Titus 2:7-8[/li][li]James 1:26-27[/li][li]James 3:13-17[/li][li]1 John 4:7-10[/li][/ul] The opinions in your OP were based on a twisting of verses from three books. We have given you the words of Christ, Himself. I’ll also remind you that a few days ago you demonstrated your ignorance of scripture. Please, tell me how _any_ of the scriptures cited in the list above apply to Mr. Oswald’s devotional. Also, please tell me how you reconcile his cruelty with Christ’s love. I know people who have encountered people who present Christianity the way you and he do. Because of those encounters, they actively dislike Christians and Christianity. It has been necessary for some of them to get to know me as a person before they find out my faith, because if they knew I was a Christian they would dislike and distrust me because of the way other Christians have treated them. You were shocked recently at the cruelty of Fred Phelps. This devotional is cut from the same cloth. When you put something like this out as an example of how Christians are supposed to act, you make my job a lot harder. Fortunately, people like **Duck Duck Goose** , **NoClueBoy** , **Libertarian** and other fine people who’ve posted to this thread (I _knew_ I should have kept that list of who cited what!) make it easier. Why did you post this? If you want people to be reminded of how sinful they are, then I will say to you, “Woman, you’ve had 3 husbands.” You haven’t mentioned your own sinful condition. At the top of the forum you posted in, there was a story of a good man in need of prayer and a few material things. As far as I know, you have done nothing for him, not even offered to pray for him or send him good thoughts. Once again, atheists are out-Christianing one of the Christians. I have a couple of questions for the Teeming Millions as a whole including our army of lurkers: Has anyone out there accepted Jesus Christ as his or her Saviour because of what **His4Ever** has written? Has anyone even come closer to doing so? CJ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/86 "2002-12-22T12:06:15Z")
cj: I’m pretty well convinced H4E posted it in an attempt to direct our attention away from her “life of sin” as so aptly portrayed in one pit thread dedicated to her and two other “fine Christian folk” (yep, that’s a sarcastic description). I’m also firmly convinced that she’s probably not even read the whole Bible yet. And not having read it, she really doesn’t know what’s contained in it. Scotticher raised a very good observation regarding whoever’s H4E’s spiritual adviser. What I’ve seen from her is an almost tangible lack of knowledge of not only the scriptures of faiths she condemns, but also of the Bible. When she’s asked to back up her outlandish statements regarding anything, it’s a quick run to those advisers and then a posting of what they say something else says. God forbid she actually do any research of her own or go to the actual sources. _In other words, what’s coming from her isn’t really from her._ I do believe she got warned about that in this thread and that was after I told her in one Pit thread > [@](#): > > You, on the other hand, have yet to come to a single conclusion of your own. Come to think of it, you really should be getting warnings for all the stuff you post here that you DON’T attribute to the people who actually said it. Basically, the OP of this thread is just one more lie about the deity of the Bible from her. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/87 "2002-12-22T12:28:37Z")
Upon reviewing this thread, I noticed that it was This Year’s Model who initially raised the observation about H4E’s so-called spiritual advisers and Scotticher made another valid observation about them. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/88 "2002-12-22T13:55:07Z")
> [@](#): > > tell me how any of the scriptures cited in the list above apply to Mr. Oswald’s devotional. Also, please tell me how you reconcile his cruelty with Christ’s love. In all fairness to Oswald Chambers, I wanna point out that he’s not saying, “We shouldn’t give hurting people our sympathy.” His book, _My Utmost for his Highest_, compiled by his wife in the 1920s from various lectures he had given over the preceding 40 years, was a deliberate reaction against the first precursors of what we would call “touchy-feely” Christianity. In the early 20th century, “psychology” was very much in style, and it was fashionable among liberal-thinking Christians (although they probably wouldn’t have used the label “liberal”, understand), to say, “Such-and-such is not his fault, we have to try and understand why he did it, and forgive it,” instead of rebuking sin in the old-fashioned way. It was also fashionable to say, “God understands why he did it,” and then fail to address the underlying sin. So that’s what he’s talking about–when you see someone sin, don’t excuse it or ignore it by giving the sinner your sympathy and understanding. Remember that the only way of salvation is through Christ, not through “sympathy” and “understanding”. _My Utmost for his Highest_ is not one of my favorite devotional books–the overall tone is one of brisk no-nonsense military-style admonition. Pull yourself together! Pray! All it takes is Will and you, too, can be a healthy Christian! Be all you can be! It gets wearing after a while, but some people like that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/89 "2002-12-22T14:06:58Z")
This is a very sad thread. **His4ever** , I _beg_ you to go and read your Bible. The parts about Jesus’s ministry. Don’t read it for little quotes and don’t read it with someone else’s commentary beside you. Just read the stories of how he interacted with the various people he met and how he said people ought to act towards others, particularly those who disagreed with him and even sought to harm him. I think you have been misled about this man. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/90 "2002-12-22T18:25:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*That’s kind of how it is, heaven forbid thay we should offend anyone so let’s not tell the whole truth or lets’ water it down a bit, etc. etc. Anyway, that’s all I’ve got to say right now. Have a nice evening and Merry Christmas to all. \<\>\< † \*\* How do you know how “it is”? Why do you think what you are saying is the “whole truth”? Because your minister said so? I have the feeling that you put a lot of faith into your church instead of the bible and Jesus’s word. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/91 "2002-12-22T19:01:23Z")
Why do you people even bother? She is not going to refute your arguments. She can’t. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/92 "2002-12-22T19:40:46Z")
Maybe Jesus fully expects that some will reject His words. It is not that He wants them to, mind you, but perhaps the gospel is not something that everyone will want to follow. It seems like He wants people to speak the truth in love instead of trying to get everyone to believe in Him by speaking only of love. On that note, what can we say of the following verses? [Matthew 7:13-23](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=matt+7%3A13-23&x=0&y=0) [Matthew 8:18-22](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=matt+8%3A18-22&x=0&y=0) [Matthew 10:34-39](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=matt+10%3A32-39&x=16&y=6) [Matthew 11:25-26](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=matt+11%3A25-26&x=0&y=0) [John 3:16-21](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=john+3%3A16-21&x=0&y=0) [John 6:60-71](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=john+6%3A60-71&x=0&y=0) [John 14:15-31](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=john+14%3A15-31&x=0&y=0) I don’t know. Is Jesus this exclusionary, judgmental son of God, or is Jesus the one who preaches love and joy for all? I hope He is not the first, because He has not chosen me. > [@](#): > > Has anyone out there accepted Jesus Christ as his or her Saviour because of what His4Ever has written? Has anyone even come closer to doing so? **cjhoworth** , while I’m not the one to whom this is directed, I’d like to state that no, I haven’t accepted Jesus because of **H4e**. No, I haven’t even come closer to doing so. However, I have thought about it again – and again realized that I am not one of God’s chosen. > [@](#): > > My Utmost for his Highest is not one of my favorite devotional books–the overall tone is one of brisk no-nonsense military-style admonition. Pull yourself together! Pray! All it takes is Will and you, too, can be a healthy Christian! Be all you can be! See, I believe that this should be true, **DDG** , but I cannot pull myself together sufficiently. Some who seek for God will not find. (Of course, maybe I just shouldn’t have studied psychology. 😃 ) PS: Do not worry for me. I have been seeking for God my whole life and have come up empty-handed. I was deluded twice into thinking that I had found Him, but I had not. I believe that He would not be God if there were not some who would search for Him and not find, and by this I am at least fulfilling His words. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/93 "2002-12-22T19:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*In all fairness to Oswald Chambers… > …So that’s what he’s talking about–when you see someone sin, don’t excuse it or ignore it by giving the sinner your sympathy and understanding. Remember that the only way of salvation is through Christ, not through “sympathy” and “understanding”. > \>snip\< > \*\* Thanks for that clarification, **DDG**. To it, let me add one more scripture which I should’ve included the last time I posted. _Galatians 6:1_ > [@](#): > > Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness, as you each keep an eye on yourself, for fear you also may be tempted. With all that has been said, quoted, referenced, praised, dismissed, debated, questioned, disagreed, and agreed with I find myself (surprisingly) with little left to say. For, IMHO, faith isn’t very debatable. Credulity should be fought against, reasonable explanations and persuausion can be used as part of “the art of teaching.” But Faith, whether in Allah, Buddah, Jesus, YHWH, Odin, Ra, or even Science, will not easily be shaken. Even if others deem it as foolishness. See you all in the next round. (I’m not speaking of the metaphysical, but of the next thread on SDMB.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/94 "2002-12-22T19:42:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > That’s kind of how it is, heaven forbid thay we should offend anyone so let’s not tell the whole truth \*\* So what you are saying is You have the “whole truth” and anyone who doesn’t listen to you is wrong? Is that what you are saying?vanilla, one of the so-called "watereddownchristians " ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/95 "2002-12-22T20:13:49Z")
Just a quick note – I spoke to **Polycarp** , and he’s sorry he’s missing this thread, too. CJ ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/96 "2002-12-22T20:18:33Z")
In response to **lel**. Read Hebrews chapter 7. And consider: If you believe that The Bible is the Word of God. Then you believe the creature who was given the name Jesus was the Son of God, And this Jesus died for Man’s sins, And was raised from the dead to a Heavenly reward, Has been given authority by God to enact God’s will, So, this Jesus has a higher ideal to hold to than we, And is completely aware of our limitations as humans, Having lived and died as one. _Hebrews 7:26_ > [@](#): > > For such a high priest as this was suitable for us, loyal, guileless, undefiled, separated from the sinners, and become higher than the heavens. * * * Look at _these_ words which the Scriptures attribute to Jesus: _Luke 12:6, 7_ > [@](#): > > Five sparrows sell for two coins of small value, do they not? Yet not one of them goes forgotten before God. But even the hairs of your heads are all numbered. Have no fear; you are worth more than many sparrows. The coin in question was an assarion, 1/16th of a denarius. Not as small as the widow’s mite (two leptons), but small change still. The parallel account in Matthew 10: 29 mentions two birds selling for one coin. Perhaps the fifth bird was thrown in for free when four were purchased? (Free car wash with every fill up.) Either way, the important part was: “Have no fear; you are worth more than many sparrows.” It’s your choice, and mine, whether to believe, or to second guess, or to accept something else. But, before deciding, even after, it pays to find out as much as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/97 "2002-12-22T20:27:55Z")
I’d like to throw one more verse into the fray, since it came up during this morning’s church service: > [@](#): > > **1 John 2:1-5** > My children, in writing thus to you my purpose is that you should not commit sin. But should anyone commit a sin, we have one to plead our cause with the Father, Jesus Christ, and he is just. He is himself the remedy for the defilement of our sins, not for our sins only, but the sins of all the world. > > Here is the test by which we can make sure that we know him: do we keep his commands? The man who says, “I know him”, while he disobeys his commands is a liar and a stranger to the truth; but in the man who is obedient to his word, the divine love has indeed come to its perfection. CJ ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/98 "2002-12-22T20:28:48Z")
[Moderator Hat: ON] Incidentally, I should have posted this sooner but wasn’t able to at the time. It is directed at **Duck Duck Goose** , for the comments: > [@](#): > > You’ll notice that your glurge version has been rewritten slightly, the old “word substitution” game familiar to every schoolkid who’s had to crib a term paper from the World Book Encyclopedia. I suppose that whoever put it out on the Internet forwarding circuit thought that this was a way to get around the copyright violation thing. > > However, IMO they’re wrong. > > Therefore, I am duly reporting your OP to a moderator as being in violation of this message board’s copyright policy. We’re very appreciative when you find these things; it’s a big help. But as we’ve posted time and time again, please let the moderators determine whether there’s really a problem. It is good to report the post to a moderator. It is counter-productive to state in the thread that you are doing so. * * * David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator [Moderator Hat: OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/99 "2002-12-22T20:43:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > Perhaps the fifth bird was thrown in for free when four were purchased? (Free car wash with every fill up.) Ah, for the good ol’ days. I discovered to my dismay early this month that the bakery down the road doesn’t do “baker’s dozens.” ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257/100 "2002-12-22T20:48:56Z")
Yipper, I betrayed my age, didn’t I? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-a-devotional/144257.md?page=6)