# For Christians: Have you ever prayed real hard for other gods to reveal themselves? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 17, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356 "2014-04-17T17:52:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/21 "2014-04-19T01:47:45Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Not a christian: why limit your query to that particular religion ? Do muslims pray to Buddha ? Do Hasidic jews pray to Papa Legba ? do hindus pray to the Horned God and his consort ? > If people feel their framework is best, that necessarily excludes other frameworks of understanding. So far one can only drive one car at a time. Only Christians have told me that the reason I am an atheist is because I didn’t pray hard enough/sincerely enough/in the proper manner. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/22 "2014-04-19T02:55:49Z")
The Bible says that other “false gods” exist… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/23 "2014-04-19T04:41:07Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > The Bible says that other “false gods” exist… I tend to take the Bible with a pillar of salt. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/24 "2014-04-19T04:45:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I tend to take the Bible with a pillar of salt. I see what you did there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/25 "2014-04-19T05:01:27Z")
Nope. The thought hasn’t even crossed my head. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/26 "2014-04-19T05:07:46Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > The Bible says that other “false gods” exist… By calling them “false gods”, it is implicitly saying that these other gods are figments of mankind’s imagination, though. Anyway. As a Christian, no, I have never prayed to another deity. I don’t believe they exist. Also, it’s explicitly against the First Commandment. (I’m not saying I haven’t broken some of the commandments before: By my count, I’ve broken the Third, Fourth, Fifth, Eighth, Ninth and Tenth at some point. But I’m tryin’.) ---
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/27 "2014-04-19T05:24:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Only Christians have told me that the reason I am an atheist is because I didn’t pray hard enough/sincerely enough/in the proper manner. I dunno who you talked to, but their understanding of faith and grace was seriously flawed. As is yours, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/28 "2014-04-19T05:29:23Z")
> [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > I dunno who you talked to, but their understanding of faith and grace was seriously flawed. As is yours, apparently. In what way, pray tell? ---
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/29 "2014-04-19T05:51:58Z")
Becoming a Christian, or “finding God” has nothing to do with how “hard you pray” or anything else you do. The heart of Christianity is that you can not do anything in and of yourself to reach Him, or be worthy. It is His Grace and Mercy at work. Praying isn’t something you can do right or wrong. It’s not magical, you aren’t mouthing some incantation. It is communicating with God. Talking, or thinking with Him. There are no formulas, or beads, or specified clothing, or anything else weird. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/30 "2014-04-19T05:57:56Z")
> [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > Becoming a Christian, or “finding God” has nothing to do with how “hard you pray” or anything else you do. The heart of Christianity is that you can not do anything in and of yourself to reach Him, or be worthy. It is His Grace and Mercy at work. Praying isn’t something you can do right or wrong. It’s not magical, you aren’t mouthing some incantation. It is communicating with God. Talking, or thinking with Him. There are no formulas, or beads, or specified clothing, or anything else weird. Would you be willing to try that approach with other gods? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/31 "2014-04-19T06:15:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would you be willing to try that approach with other gods? _“You worship the Nine Divines, perhaps? Have they ever helped or harmed you? Of course not. Now, worship a Daedra Lord, and you get effects… bad ones, of course, but clear and measurable effects.”_ – Ulene Hlervu, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion ---
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/32 "2014-04-19T08:26:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would you be willing to try that approach with other gods? Why would I? Again, you are having a disconnect. My relationship with Jesus is much like that of a spouse. My relationship is with Him. Not others. By definition, any other gods (and I use that term because you do, not because I believe them to be) are of a lesser status. Mind you, I am not trying to convince you of the truth of the claims, I am just trying to express the worldview for you. I won’t try to convert you, I would appreciate you not trying to convert me, or ridicule my faith. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/33 "2014-04-19T14:34:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Seriously, though-Is there a difference between a Christian telling a non-believer to pray real hard and their god will “come into his/her life”, and telling a Christian to pray real hard to other gods so that _they_ might have other deities come into _their_ lives? Why is the former more acceptable than the latter? There are two big differences. One is, if they’re correct, that would be a difference. The other I cover below. > [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > Mind you, I am not trying to convince you of the truth of the claims, I am just trying to express the worldview for you. I won’t try to convert you, I would appreciate you not trying to convert me, or ridicule my faith. Evidently you’re not familiar with the parts of the Bible and Christian faith that say that if you open yourself to God, He’ll connect with you. Sorry, I can’t quote chapter and verse, but many can, and many do. But since you’re not of that ilk, I don’t think this is directed at you. Seriously, though, there is a simple answer to the OP. If you open up yourself to the One True God and He [… someone feel free to fill in the blanks here, this part confuses me …] after which you’re a Believer, there’s no reason to look around. There’s no inherent contradiction in what these Christians are saying. Sorry, but there’s no “gotcha” here. There’s just the blatant falsehood, as some of us know from experience: it doesn’t necessarily work. Religion is a socially heritable trait, along with language. Most people adopt that of their parents. Far more heritable than intelligence, work ethic, optimism, and any number of personal psychological traits. It’s clear that for most people, cultural bias matters much more than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/34 "2014-04-19T16:29:00Z")
> [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > Why would I? Again, you are having a disconnect. My relationship with Jesus is much like that of a spouse. How is he in the sack ? ---
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/35 "2014-04-20T15:22:12Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > How is he in the sack ? If you wanted a serious discussion, I would oblige. Since you are clearly only an asshole, I won’t waste my time. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/36 "2014-04-20T15:29:56Z")
> [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > If you wanted a serious discussion, I would oblige. Since you are clearly only an asshole, I won’t waste my time. How about if _I_ ask? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/37 "2014-04-20T15:52:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How about if _I_ ask? Oh dear, I am soooo not touching that one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/38 "2014-04-20T16:14:38Z")
> [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > If you wanted a serious discussion, I would oblige. Since you are clearly only an asshole, I won’t waste my time. This ain’t the Pit, girlfriend. You can’t insult people here. Friendly reminder. And no reporting, since I ain’t an asshole\*. I’m just tickled in the funny bone by nonsense, is all. - this is not intended as a factual statement ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/39 "2014-04-20T16:24:22Z")
> [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > Why would I? Again, you are having a disconnect. My relationship with Jesus is much like that of a spouse. My relationship is with Him. Not others. If I might extend the analogy, and honestly meaning no offense to you; if I had only ever been in a relationship with the one person, and had no alternative experiences to compare with, how could I judge that relationship? I mean (and again, I really don’t mean to offend, but this is the best way I can think of to put it within this analogy), there are people out there in abusive relationships with their spouse, who are convinced that it’s possible for someone to both love them and deliberately hurt them as a consequence of that love. Obviously this isn’t all relationships, and there are many magnificient ones out there. But without comparison, how can we really know whether ours is a true and loving one? And perhaps it’s an obvious point, but; \*your \*relationship may be only with him. _His_ is, at least optimistically, with _everyone_. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356/40 "2014-04-20T16:27:54Z")
> [@Inna\_Minnit](#): > > It is communicating with God. Talking, or thinking with Him. It is just one-sided though or does he actually talk back, and if so how does he communicate back to you? Is it verbally, or throughout your day do you pick up on things, thinking God is trying to tell you something? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-christians-have-you-ever-prayed-real-hard-for-other-gods-to-reveal-themselves/686356.md?page=3)