# For crying out loud, what's the point of the homosexuality debates?? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 13, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214 "2002-09-13T03:28:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/41 "2002-09-13T15:05:52Z")
RexDart said, "Guess what, somebody on the danged internet saying he/she doesn’t approve morally of homosexuality will not affect your personal life one dang bit. Not at all. Nor would 1,000 people…nor would 1,000,000 people…nor would 10,000,000 people. " You are so wrong. Attitudes on the Internet affect attitudes in real life. Maybe moreso than ever before. The number of people who are reached is a thousand times the number that would be reached at a KKK rally or similar hate event. The attitudes you see here are the same ones walking around in real life. Just because you can’t be physically beaten on the internet doesn’t mean you’re immune to the emotional abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/42 "2002-09-13T18:53:24Z")
I wholeheartedly disagree with the OP. I will point you to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135183) for more of an education. I will also sing another verse of “You’ve Got To Be Carefully Taught” from _South Pacific_: > [@](#): > > You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear > You’ve got to be taught from year to year > It’s got to be drummed in your dear little ear. > You’ve got to be carefully taught. > > You’ve got to be taught to be afraid > Of people whose eyes are oddly made > and people whose skin is a different shade > You’ve got to be carefully taught. > > You’ve got to be taught > before it’s too late > before you are six or seven or eight > To hate all the people your relatives hate > You’ve got to be carefully taught. Words do, indeed, hurt. Oh, and **Ace**? You really need to learn when to shut the fuck up. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/43 "2002-09-13T19:22:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > Oh, and **Ace**? You really need to learn when to shut the fuck up. > > Esprix I don’t tell you what to think, you don’t tell me when to post, and we’ll keep it civil. -Ace ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/44 "2002-09-13T19:41:39Z")
Please see my most recent post above, **Ace**. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/45 "2002-09-13T19:42:44Z")
May I offer [this](http://www.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=33;t=000444) to our fundamentalist brethren to show how their message of “love” is received? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/46 "2002-09-13T19:57:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by black455 \* > \*\* > > Soitenly. > > It’s Cincinnati. This is just the first thing I came up with: > [http://www.nlf.net/is3crtden.html](http://www.nlf.net/is3crtden.html) > > Do a search on Cincinnati “Issue 3” and you should find plenty of shit. \*\* Hmm, legalese usually makes me cross-eyed, and I didn’t read the rest of the charter, but the paragraph you posted seemed to make a lot of sense to me. Why SHOULD a homosexual receive special treatment under the law? All it seemed to say to me was that they would make no law that specifically benefitted a homosexual. I think if the same were true for skin color et. al. things would be much better. If a law doesn’t apply to every single person it needs to be changed. That’s my opinion. Therefore if you are going to allow marriage, EVERYONE should be allowed to get married, if you are going to make it illegal to kill people it should be the same punishment whether you kill someone for crack of because they are a homosexual. I think that Cincinatti has it right, if of course I read that right. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/47 "2002-09-13T20:12:20Z")
So in lieu of the right to marry, **mswas** , you have no problem with a gay person’s life partner being denied access to them while they are in the hospital? (After all, “next of kin” applies to everyone.) Because until equal marriage laws are passed (and that’s still quite a ways off), this is just _one small example_ of the overt discrimination that the gay community faces every single day. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/48 "2002-09-13T20:18:52Z")
So Esprix, musicals are valid citations? If that holds up, you might have just singlehandedly changed the entire face of great debates! ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/49 "2002-09-13T20:30:22Z")
No, you _baka_, they’re valid _quo_tations. ---
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/50 "2002-09-13T20:33:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*May I offer this to our fundamentalist brethren to show how their message of “love” is received? \*\* I’m convinced that a great many of them don’t care how it’s received. They only care that they deliver it, thereby earning a few more Piety Points[sup]TM[/sup]. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/51 "2002-09-13T20:53:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Joe\_Cool** _ > > So Esprix, musicals are valid citations? If that holds up, you might have just singlehandedly changed the entire face of great debates! :rolleyes: And last time I checked, we weren’t in Great Debates, nor were we greatly debating. I do believe we were discussing opinions. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/52 "2002-09-13T21:04:41Z")
**Joe Cool** , I see in another threads that you and **Jersey Diamond** are getting married. Congratualtions, I hope you’ll be very happy. **Cajun Man** and **Dr. Matrix** have been together, what, 20-some years now? And they are not allowed to get married, because their relationship “doesn’t count.” I’m just sayin’, there still are things that need to be accomplished before we can just stop complaining. ---
**Author:** ![\_Uigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e9a140/32.png) [@\_Uigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Uigi)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/53 "2002-09-13T22:41:27Z")
Shit this place is going down the crapper… ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/54 "2002-09-13T22:43:59Z")
That’s true, the fact that **'Uigi** has somehow still not been baned is shameful… ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/55 "2002-09-14T00:01:52Z")
**Ace** , just in case you missed it, here is my response to the portion of the OP you quoted: “Well, thanks for letting me know. I guess I can just stop caring that the people who don’t approve of my sexuality online also don’t approve of it in real life, and rest assured that their beliefs are not hurting anyone in person. Because, after all, that’s the important thing, right? Forget the community I’ve grown to call a home in the past two+ years. It’s just the internet. It’s not like I have any feelings invested in this place:rolleyes:” In other words, the people who hate and judge and condemn and otherwise make life unpleasant for non-hets on this board probably do so in real life. And for those people it can’t always be a matter of going where there isn’t hate. And they shouldn’t have to stop going to the doctor or the barber or the theater, or the grocery store for cryin’ out loud, just because they want to avoid the kind of bigotry that is still very much present in this country. I deal with it on a **daily basis** at school. And I’m not even walking about “flaunting my [prefix]sexuality”. And **'Uigi** , I have a suggestion that might make everyone happier: 1. Insert head (your own). 2. Flush. 3. Repeat as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/56 "2002-09-14T01:20:39Z")
I am not American yet I love an American citizen and have been with her for over 3 years yet I cannot enter your country as a spouse/partner. I am lucky my field of employment is terribly specialised and I have networks there that will provide me with full time employment however my understanding of the Visa situation is that should I lose that job for any reason I have 10 days to leave the country. That is no basis for a life together. I could marry the first male American tourist I see and get in as a spouse but instead I have to jump hoops and live in fear of funding crises in my field or getting sick or be illegal and not contribute via taxation or voting or do anything that may bring me to notice. Tell me again I should shut up when equality is realised, not before. Note: My country Australia doesn’t make it all that easy but it is possible to bring same-sex partners here openly as partners provided they have co-habitated for 12 months and have them granted permanent resident status. We too have a way to go, just not as far. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/57 "2002-09-14T01:47:47Z")
Thanks for playing, **'Uigi**. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/58 "2002-09-14T16:30:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart [altered, in brackets, by **lissener** \* > \*\*[Mobile, Alabama, 1967.] > > Jeez, people. Get the frick over it, already. > > Guess what, somebody on the danged internet saying he/she doesn’t approve morally of [the black race] **will not** affect your personal life one dang bit. Not at all. Nor would 1,000 people…nor would 1,000,000 people…nor would 10,000,000 people. In case you haven’t tested the political and social winds lately, lick your finger and shove it into the air and take a look: **[being black] is publicly accepted**. You have nothing at all to fear. > > The states are not going to start enforcing the [miscegenation] laws still on the books simply because some people continue to advance an anti-[Negro] position. Senators and attorneys general aren’t about to switch sides on [mixed] marriage because **His4Ever** posted some remarks you don’t like. It ain’t frickin’ gonna happen. There is not going to be a backsliding in recognition of [blacks’ civil] liberties. It’s so mainstream that [white] people (still 90% of us) are [listening to black music], and many of the biggest fans of that show that I know personnally are devoutly religious. It just isn’t an issue anymore. > > A few people will always hold a contrary position. It’s a fact of life. In this case, it’s a moral judgment. It’s not like they’re saying 2+2=5, it’s a wee bit subjective. [_sic_] The hatred and vitriol that has flown from people’s [mouths] this past week is astonishing. > > If you’re ever at the point at which the mere expression of a contrary opinion is seen as so extremely threatening that you must supress it with vigilance, you might want to take a look at the strength of your own position…in this case, I doubt your position is so weak that you need present the defense that you have. All that the discussion of this past week or so has accomplished is to demonstrate new heights of personal enmity and bitterness. > > In a free society as we have today, wherein personal liberties are generally respected, an idea or thought _isn’t dangerous_. Heck, a solid 50 years of [J. Edgar Hoover] still couldn’t change that. “Fighting ignorance” hasn’t worked so far, it’s not going to work. Why waste time and effort, and only antagonize people further? This latest debate is only one of a long series of such issues, debates that simply will not reslove themselves. Tough luck. Find something else to talk about, because continuing to press the issue is just verbal self-fellation…you’re free to talk on and on about it, but if it isn’t getting results, why bother to continue? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/59 "2002-09-14T16:31:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart [altered, in brackets, by **lissener** \* > \*\*[Mobile, Alabama, 1964.] > > Jeez, people. Get the frick over it, already. > > Guess what, somebody on the danged internet saying he/she doesn’t approve morally of [the black race] **will not** affect your personal life one dang bit. Not at all. Nor would 1,000 people…nor would 1,000,000 people…nor would 10,000,000 people. In case you haven’t tested the political and social winds lately, lick your finger and shove it into the air and take a look: **[being black] is publicly accepted**. You have nothing at all to fear. > > The states are not going to start enforcing the [miscegenation] laws still on the books simply because some people continue to advance an anti-[Negro] position. Senators and attorneys general aren’t about to switch sides on [mixed] marriage because **His4Ever** posted some remarks you don’t like. It ain’t frickin’ gonna happen. There is not going to be a backsliding in recognition of [blacks’ civil] liberties. It’s so mainstream that [white] people (still 90% of us) are [listening to black music], and many of the biggest fans of that show that I know personnally are devoutly religious. It just isn’t an issue anymore. > > A few people will always hold a contrary position. It’s a fact of life. In this case, it’s a moral judgment. It’s not like they’re saying 2+2=5, it’s a wee bit subjective. [_sic_] The hatred and vitriol that has flown from people’s [mouths] this past week is astonishing. > > If you’re ever at the point at which the mere expression of a contrary opinion is seen as so extremely threatening that you must supress it with vigilance, you might want to take a look at the strength of your own position…in this case, I doubt your position is so weak that you need present the defense that you have. All that the discussion of this past week or so has accomplished is to demonstrate new heights of personal enmity and bitterness. > > In a free society as we have today, wherein personal liberties are generally respected, an idea or thought _isn’t dangerous_. Heck, a solid 50 years of [J. Edgar Hoover] still couldn’t change that. “Fighting ignorance” hasn’t worked so far, it’s not going to work. Why waste time and effort, and only antagonize people further? This latest debate is only one of a long series of such issues, debates that simply will not reslove themselves. Tough luck. Find something else to talk about, because continuing to press the issue is just verbal self-fellation…you’re free to talk on and on about it, but if it isn’t getting results, why bother to continue? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2002, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214/60 "2002-09-14T16:54:58Z")
Nice post, Scylla. Or, to make more useuful comparison, can we change our hated status in the Mid-East by unilaterally bombing the shit out of the Iraqis? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-crying-out-loud-whats-the-point-of-the-homosexuality-debates/128214.md?page=4)