# For David B, the good Doctor and others who are knowledgable about Creation debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 1999, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218 "1999-11-12T22:37:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/341 "1999-12-03T17:45:00Z")
Good point, RTF. By the way, Ghoti noted that he had found c/e threads 8-12 in his buffer, and would send them to anybody who asked. I don’t really want him to have my e-mail address. If anybody else would be willing to e-mail and ask him, I’d appreciate it if you could ship 'em over to me. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/342 "1999-12-03T17:55:00Z")
Well **David** , I’m still a little tired from trying to explain radioisotope dating at a forth-grade comprehension level. So I could give you a short answer, as they seem to like argument by analogy. What are the odds that you will win the lottery? Pretty damn long. What are the odds that _someone_ will win the lottery? Pretty damn good, in fact it is so close to a certainty we accept it. Now, how manny stars did God create that have planets that could support life? At the rate we are discovering them it seems that the Universe is filed with them. Consider each of these trillions of planets as holding a ticket in the “Life Lottery”. We just happen to be the one that won. **NOTE:** This does not represent my views. The facts of chemistry demand that complex carbon based molecules must form in any environment where the temperature allows liquid water. Eventually, one or more molecule are likely to form that have the self-replicating feature needed for us to call it “Life”. There is NOTHING that REQUIRES any given self-replicator to be composed of simpler units in the same order or of the same type as has happened here on Earth. The “odds against” argument is as meaningless as stating that the odds against a cloud that looks like a cat is outside of my window. It in no way shows that there are no clouds outside, and the likelyhood of one looking like a cat IS EXACTLY EQUAL to the likelyhood it looks like a cloud. The “odds against” argument also ignores the fact that atoms combine in orderly ways, and assuming the combinations are completely stochastic is ignoring the chemistry involved. ## Damn, I wish I were better with numbers. I could present this as a quantitative argument rather than an qualitative argument. Qualitative arguments are not rigorous enough to establish anything… Dr. Fidelius, Charlatan Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University “You cannot reason a man out of a position he did not reach through reason.” Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër ? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/343 "1999-12-03T17:58:00Z")
Thanks, Doc. I think I just made an argument similar to that (tho not as good) somewhere, but I can’t recall if it was here (trying to get thru to Dansir) or over there (trying to get thru to a brick wall). I’ll have to check. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/344 "1999-12-04T06:00:00Z")
I _know_ I don’t want them to have my email address. I’d probably have Thomas yammering at me via email, “HAVE YOU ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR? ANSWER ME RIGHT NOW!!!” Then I’d have to track him down and kill him. And, as OJ proved, even if you get away with murder, the hassles just go on forever. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/345 "1999-12-04T06:04:00Z")
What the hell…I’ll email ghoti for the threads, David. I’ll send them to you tonight once I get home. * * * “Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it.” - George Carlin ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/346 "1999-12-04T06:08:00Z")
RT - They’d never prove anything! After all, I want to whack Thomas too! * * * “Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it.” - George Carlin ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/347 "1999-12-04T06:09:00Z")
I think if you work in a “how many molecules in how many puddles on these planets” you could approach the Hoyle Constant. If you are in a nasty mood, you could suggest that the Universe is as big as it is, if God is only interested in humans, in order to ensure that there would be at least one holder of the Winning Ticket. If no one won this time around, what’s a few billion years wasted on a Universe that didn’t pan out to an immortal being? I’ve wasted proportionally more of my life time cooking a meal that didn’t turn out well… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/348 "1999-12-03T20:46:00Z")
Gaudeamus, Gaudere! (Well, gaudeo, at least.) Thanks to your tenactious ability to overcome the [LeftBehind.com](http://LeftBehind.com) registration system, I’ve just posted my first “rookie” messages to the Left Behind Message Board. They’re in the “Hubbel Telescope” thread in End-Time Events, and the “Oklahoma”, “chromosome”, and “Taste Him” 🙂 threads in The Narrow Road. I wonder how long it’ll be before they figure out I’m a satan-worshipping baby-sacrificing goat-hoofed heathen. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/349 "1999-12-03T21:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I wonder how long it’ll be before they figure out I’m a satan-worshipping baby-sacrificing goat-hoofed heathen. As much as I appreciate your worship, quit offing the babies already! We got enough rugrats running around down here… * * * Yer pal, Satan ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 1999, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/350 "1999-12-03T21:59:00Z")
But wait, bat-fans… Just answered Nav’s question about “Where does God fit into an evolutionary world?” And answered it honestly…so now let’s see where we go from here. (Thought I’d get ya off the hook there, DavidB.) * * * “Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it.” - George Carlin ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/351 "1999-12-04T01:44:00Z")
Satan wrote: > [@](#): > > As much as I appreciate your worship, quit offing the babies already! We got enough rugrats running around down here… What, you mean you’re not eating the babies I send you anymore? I cooked 'em medium-rare and garnished them with a dash of paprika, just like you said you wanted! ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/352 "1999-12-04T02:41:00Z")
Thanks, Falcon, but I’ll answer it as well. I thought of another good response: “Where does particle physics fit into Christianity? What’s that? It doesn’t. Hmmm. Well, same thing, then.” Or some variant of that. BTW, I see that Tracer had to use “JoshuaTenForty” instead of 10:40 – was that the original problem all along? Oh, and Navigator has already looked it up and said it was an interesting choice. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/353 "1999-12-04T03:07:00Z")
DrF: I posted a variant on your suggestion. Thanks! Now I wonder how Ghoti will shrug it off. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/354 "1999-12-04T06:18:00Z")
[http://www.leftbehind.com/cgi-bbs/Forum8/HTML/001216-2.html](http://www.leftbehind.com/cgi-bbs/Forum8/HTML/001216-2.html) Hmmm…looks like their Potty-Mouth Filter doesn’t work so good…let’s see how long it takes 'em to ban me. -David ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/355 "1999-12-04T14:08:00Z")
\< Gasp! \> You said “piss”!! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/356 "1999-12-04T15:12:00Z")
Actually, David, my (modest) understanding of particle physics has a significant part in my personal theology… 🙂 Still, your basic point is valid: no one expects quantum theory to ‘mean’ anything; it’s only evolution that is under the gun due to its ‘meaninglessness.’ ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 1999, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/357 "1999-12-05T06:56:00Z")
David wants to know where I’ve been. Jeez, I try to have a real life for a few days… Actually, I’ve been reading the Boards both here and Over There trying to catch up on what I missed over Thanksgiving. I should be back up to speed by Monday. * * * Fighting my own ignorance since 1957. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/358 "1999-12-04T19:17:00Z")
Yeah, David…but the funny thing is that Nav wasn’t mad at me–he was mad at YOU! HaHaHaHaHaaaa… -David II (the sequel) ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/359 "1999-12-04T19:33:00Z")
I just posted Over There on the Oklahoma Science Book thread. I tried to point out that if there are enough _micro_ changes in a species, a _macro_ change (a new species) will result and that’s how “micro-evolution” and “macro-evolution” are related. I didn’t read that whole thread, but I made it clear that I had not, so it should be OK, I hope. * * * Fighting my own ignorance since 1957. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 1999, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/360 "1999-12-04T19:40:00Z")
Someone just brought up the old “moon dust” and entropy arguments over on the “Evolution-A new beginning?” thread. Geez, don’t those things _ever_ die? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218.md?page=19)