# For David B, the good Doctor and others who are knowledgable about Creation debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 1999, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218 "1999-11-12T22:37:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/41 "1999-11-18T02:57:00Z")
Thanks, manhattan, I’ll take you up on that. Can it be a Negra Modelo? I _love_ Mexican beers. As you’ve noticed (and maybe some of the others here have checked in too), things have picked up over in the ‘Biblical errors’ thread on Leftbehind. (Sorry, too tired to make it a URL.) I’m wiser than I used to be, maybe, but I don’t have the stamina to keep up with a group like that for long. I’m EXHAUSTED. Maybe I’ll have that beer now, rather than waiting until I arrive in Hell. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/42 "1999-11-18T02:58:00Z")
I just looked at that last link **Satan** gave us. Someone is repeating that inaccurate claim that the fossil of _Archaeopteryx_ was a fraud. Gimme some time and I’ll refute that little canard. I registered there. This is gonna be fun. 🙂 * * * Fighting my own ignorance since 1957. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/43 "1999-11-18T07:59:00Z")
jab1 - Yes, actually, it was things like that on that board which is why I figured I’d post it here. It’s easy to preach to the converted, and while I know the arguments, people like David and the good doctor are much better are making them. If they are going to get the Straight Dope, it should be from someone straighter than I. Wait, that doesn’t sound right… * * * Yer pal, Satan ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/44 "1999-11-18T17:10:00Z")
[sermon] I happen to believe that everyone has a right to discuss whatever they want in their homes, church basements, or message boards so long as it does not impact me. They can be as wrong as they want in their trivial little community; when they try to have legislation passed or invade MY trivial little community, then I feel obligated to try to correct their errors. Our mandate is to Fight Ignorance. That does not include, in my estimation, going out to pick fights with those who are not ready to have their ignorance questioned. That sort of tactics gives us the reputation of being contentious troublemakers, and is unlikely to sway anyone’s beliefs. [/sermon] ---
**Author:** ![Occam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Occam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Occam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/45 "1999-11-18T17:54:00Z")
Ok, Creation vs. Evolution. Would someone please tell me where I can read SCIENTIST’S proof of creation. They can’t be some hack pseudo-scientist, I need to hear it from a PHD. Before we can start a serious debate we need serious opposition. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/46 "1999-11-18T19:56:00Z")
**DrFidelius** has a point, but these Message Boards are open to the public. That’s the point of the WWW, right? I promise to be reasonable. I merely pointed out that additional feathered-dinosaur and primitive-bird fossils have been discovered and photos of them are in the November issue of the _National Geographic_. I allowed that it’s possible that _Archaeopteryx_ is a fake, but _all_ of them? Doesn’t seem credible, does it? Pictures of the new findings are at [www.ngnews.com/news/1999/09092099/dinobird\_576426091719429.asp](http://www.ngnews.com/news/1999/09092099/dinobird_576426091719429.asp) There’s another extraordinary find at _NG_, but I’m gonna comment on it elsewhere. * * * Fighting my own ignorance since 1957. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/47 "1999-11-18T19:59:00Z")
Ignore the above link. Pardon me while i hit myself silly. Try this one: [www.ngnews.com/firstfinds/](http://www.ngnews.com/firstfinds/) * * * Fighting my own ignorance since 1957. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/48 "1999-11-18T20:02:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Pardon me while i hit myself silly. With a tyrannosaur feather? Can we watch? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/49 "1999-11-18T20:02:00Z")
Occam said: > [@](#): > > Would someone please tell me where I can read SCIENTIST’S proof of creation. They can’t be some hack pseudo-scientist, I need to hear it from a PHD. Before we can start a serious debate we need serious opposition. Sure, go ask Phaedrus – he’s been promising to give scientific evidence against evolution for weeks now. Better yet, don’t ask Phaedrus – it’ll only stoke his already enormous ego. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/50 "1999-11-18T20:05:00Z")
I should’ve added: There is no serious scientific debate, and you’ve hit on the precise reason why. Creationists don’t have any scientific evidence to back their claims. The best they can do is try to nitpick at evolution in the hopes that it will come tumbling down and they will be there to pick up the pieces with their Bibles. This is why I get disgusted when I see people talking about evolution as a “controversial issue.” It isn’t! At least not among scientists. The only people who have problems with it are those who can’t bear to “think” that their holy book is not also a science book. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/51 "1999-11-18T20:09:00Z")
LOL, **Polycarp**. * * * Fighting my own ignorance since 1957. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/52 "1999-11-18T20:25:00Z")
RTFirefly: > [@](#): > > I’m posting as ‘nightmare’, but you’d have figured that out on your own. It’s near the top - I’ve started to get some (weak) responses. So that was **you!** While reading the thread, I was thinking, “This ‘nightmare’ guy is the only one making sense.” I am Christian, but I’m not a Bible literalist. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/53 "1999-11-18T20:31:00Z")
Yup, that’s me. But I think I’ve reaffirmed my initial thesis (see my first post in this thread): trying to reason with them is like talking to a brick wall. That’s what I get, I suppose, for disregarding my own advice! ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/54 "1999-11-18T20:37:00Z")
Jab, I see that one of them has responded to your arch. post. I’m trying to decide if I want to sign on there… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/55 "1999-11-18T20:52:00Z")
Dr F, my favorite charlatan - I didn’t go there to pick a fight, nor would I. My intent in posting on the [Biblical errors?](http://www.leftbehind.com/cgi-bbs/Forum8/HTML/000961.html) thread of ‘Leftbehind’ was to raise some serious questions, after I responded to the initial barrage of questions, but I never got ahead of the curve. Such as: What does the doctrine of biblical inerrancy deal with the Old Testament? (Which OT laws do we ignore, and why? Diet? Sabbath? Any others? And if the OT is without error, shouldn’t Christians at least _try_ to obey the dietary laws?) Can one write a ‘doctrine of Biblical inerrancy’ that is consistent with the Bible? (In other words, can they write a definition of inerrancy that I can’t defeat, using only the Bible and their definition?) Is the concept of inerrancy biblical? (In other words, is that how God intended Christians to look at the Bible?) I actually raised that one in my first post, but it’s mostly been ignored. Big surprise, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/56 "1999-11-18T20:54:00Z")
What the @#!!, I don’t see any responses to Jab’s post yet. Clue me in, David. Is it just me, or do any of the rest of you feel like you’re watching “Parade of the (Ned) Flanderses” when you read that message board? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/57 "1999-11-18T20:58:00Z")
4th post in this thread: [http://www.leftbehind.com/cgi-bbs/Forum8/HTML/000986.html](http://www.leftbehind.com/cgi-bbs/Forum8/HTML/000986.html) I have signed on (I was hesitant, 'cus I have to use my real e-mail address, but what the heck) using a name and interests that should give folks there some clues. I may or may not post, depending on my available time. (Hint: My name is an anagram of “Charles Darwin.”) ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/58 "1999-11-18T21:00:00Z")
Anybody know what that bit about “IP: Logged” is at the bottom of each message? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/59 "1999-11-18T21:04:00Z")
Occam - the creationists do have at least one Ph.D. defending their cause, a guy by the name of Duane Gish, a protein boichemist with a Ph.D. from Berkeley, and VP of the Institute for Creation Research. See [www.talkorigins.org](http://www.talkorigins.org) ‘s take on Gish [here](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/cre-error.html); that page has a link to the ICR, to get the creationists’ side of things as well. But just because Gish has a doctorate doesn’t mean what he’s peddling is science. Far from it. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 1999, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/60 "1999-11-18T21:07:00Z")
Yegods, some of these people are scary. One said: > [@](#): > > The Bible is the inerrant Word of God, or it is all untrue. If God lied or was incorrect once, then it all was. How can somebody truly be that clueless? One error in the Bible means their god is a liar? Don’t they understand that the Bible was written (or, if you believe it, at least transcribed) by men? This is the same person who relishes the idea that they are supposed to have “childlike faith.” Personally, I’d rather be an adult… See what happens when you guys send me to these sites? I come back here and vent about them. It’s all your fault, Satan – there you go, tempting me! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218.md?page=4)