# For David B, the good Doctor and others who are knowledgable about Creation debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 1999, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218 "1999-11-12T22:37:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 1999, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/121 "1999-11-20T06:21:00Z")
Reading that board makes me wonder though; do we appear that insular and closeminded? Are we? I do think that we have a broader mix, since we a fair number of atheists _and_ theists. I haven’t seen anyone yet I could peg as an atheist ('cept for David, but I have inside info). As a side note, the sheer volume of times I have read “God said it, I believe it, that settles it” boggles my mind. You would think they were there when God dictated the Bible word-for-word. And impling that theistic evolutionists “lack faith”? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 1999, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/122 "1999-11-20T06:30:00Z")
Soulfrost is right, and so is Gaudere. It is an interesting mix, there. Well, not so much a mix as, hmm, I can’t think of a good word for it. It’s like they have Christians and they have _Christians_ and they have **Christians**. I did find the prayer in school thread interesting, as I think I mentioned earlier, because so many are against it. They actually realize that this means their religious beliefs may not be taught the way they want them! We need to get these folks elected to the board of the Christian Coalition. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 1999, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/123 "1999-11-20T06:35:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I did find the prayer in school thread interesting, as I think I mentioned earlier. No. Nope. Didn’t mention it. Nope. Not at all. If you _had_, it would be on the evil 2nd page of this thread. So you didn’t. Move along, nothing to see here. * * * Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 1999, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/124 "1999-11-20T06:45:00Z")
🙂 I entered discussions about abortion and something about earthquakes (oh, and the big conspiracy to hide what really happened to the Hubble – it got hit by a meteor but NASA lied and said one of its gyroscopes went out). I’m also trying to figure out just what these folks think “creationism” means. Jeez, it’s like trying to get Phaedrus to define terms! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 1999, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/125 "1999-11-20T06:46:00Z")
Oh, and there’s a thread on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity there. I almost thought to post a link to the Straight Dope column on that (and related discussion), but then I thought somebody might pop over here and, whoops! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 1999, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/126 "1999-11-20T06:52:00Z")
What the School Prayer url? I can’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 1999, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/127 "1999-11-20T06:54:00Z")
What\*\*'s\*\*, I meant. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/128 "1999-11-19T19:05:00Z")
I guess I’m out of the mainstream Christian loop. I don’t get the “Cruelism” thing. The idea, as I understand it, is that **if** evolution is true, species would have died out, and since death is cruel it implies that Ghod is cruel. Am I understanding this right? I guess I just don’t understand the difference between a dinosaur dying and a vole dying. Why do long-dead critters mean Ghod’s a jerk? -andros- ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/129 "1999-11-19T19:10:00Z")
Gaudere: [http://www.leftbehind.com/cgi-bbs/Forum8/HTML/000957.html](http://www.leftbehind.com/cgi-bbs/Forum8/HTML/000957.html) It’s called “Separation of Church and State vs. Freedom of Expression and Freedom of Religion” and is currently on the second page of the list of topics (no wonder they do so much bumping there). ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/130 "1999-11-19T19:12:00Z")
I’m trying to figure out that whole cruelism thing also. I think they are saying that if God created and killed off these other animals that had no other purpose but to evolve into a later form, that would be cruel. I think. You could try asking for more clarification. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/131 "1999-11-19T19:13:00Z")
Here’s what Thomas had to say, a little while ago: > [@](#): > > Theistic evolution says that God used evolution to create the world. This implies that due to the amount of death and suffering involved in theistic evolution, the adherents to that belief must also conclude that God is cruel and merciless; therefore, “Cruelism” is a one-word way of saying “theistic evolution.” I still don’t get it, tho… ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/132 "1999-11-19T19:15:00Z")
Oh, heck, I was there so I asked. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/133 "1999-11-19T19:18:00Z")
Let’s see how many messages in a row David B can post! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/134 "1999-11-19T19:25:00Z")
You’re doing well, David. You don’t seem to have managed to piss anyone seriously off yet. Unlike RTF, heh heh. -andros- ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/135 "1999-11-19T19:26:00Z")
I’ll cut in, David! Their theory is weird. The fact that a species has been around for millions of years rather than 6,000, well, naturally you’re going to have more dead animals. So? If the world is only 6,000 years old all the trillions of critters that would have existed if the world is millions of years _would never have existed at all_. So which is worse? To never be or to live and die? (And perhaps you could draw a parallel to abortion/birth control. Do they think a severly handicapped child should be born, to suffer terribly and die too soon, or should the child be aborted early? If the child should be born, even if his/her life is hard, then why isn’t it better for trillions of animals to have a chance at life? Maybe God is cruel to _not_ give animals millions of years to live and die.) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/136 "1999-11-19T19:27:00Z")
> [@](#): > > First of all, I believe the Bible is to be interpreted literally in order to > maintain the standard. There is a danger with non-literal > interpretation: Where do you stop? Where does the non-literal > become literal? _If you simply interpret it literally, you have no > question._ “God said it, I believe it, that settles it.” (Italics mine). This hurts my head. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/137 "1999-11-19T19:29:00Z")
\*\*\*\*Impolite language to follow: Gaudere, are you shitting me? ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/138 "1999-11-19T19:35:00Z")
What about? I was trying to look it from thier viewpoint: animals living and dying for millions of years is needless suffering. But most fundies I know also believe _any_ life, even painful, crippled, vegetable-brained life should be preserved at all costs. So if even a miserable life is a good thing, why isn’t a good thing for there to have been trillions of animals who got a chance at life, rather than never existing at all? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/139 "1999-11-19T19:38:00Z")
::: adopting sonorous preacher voice ::: But, my children, there are some things that are a mystery, and God’s providence towards his uncreated creatures is one of these things. Be comforted that He knows and does what is best for all his creation. ::: putting on bulls-eye T-shirt :::: ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 1999, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218/140 "1999-11-19T19:40:00Z")
No, I agree with you. I’m just amazed at the train of logic required for people to see “Theistic Evolution” as “Cruelism.” Takes all kinds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-david-b-the-good-doctor-and-others-who-are-knowledgable-about-creation-debate/17218.md?page=8)