# For English Dopers, Why is it called COUNTY Durham? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 10, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796 "2002-12-10T17:37:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mogiaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mogiaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mogiaw)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/1 "2002-12-10T17:37:18Z")
Hiya, I was wondering why in England Co. Durham seems to be the only county with the “Co.” prefix. In Ireland every county is referred to as such. What singles out Durham from other English counties? Thanks Mogiaw ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/2 "2002-12-10T17:39:56Z")
my WAG is that there is a town called Durham too, so calling the district ‘County’ differentiates them. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/3 "2002-12-10T17:48:28Z")
I think that’s a good guess, since none of the others have towns in them with their own name. Of course it doesn’t explain why county Durham isn’t called Durhamshire. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/4 "2002-12-10T20:01:46Z")
WAG: Several methods of referring to English counties- 1/ Shire counties- those ending in -shire, usually named after a county town- Hampshire (Southampton) Dorset (Dorchester) Gloucestershire (Glucester) Warwickshire (Warwick) Chesire (Chester) Lancashire (Lancaster) Yorkshire (York) Oxfordshire Cambridgeshire Lincolnshire etc. etc. Many of these may also be called County of X- County of Hampshire etc. exception- Somerset- used to be Somersetshire but now archaic- named after old county town of Somerton (now a small and insignificant town) 2/ Counties named after ancient kingdoms- Essex Middlesex Sussex Kent Cornwall Cumberland Northumberland Norfolk Suffolk Westmoreland again also known as County of X Durham doesn’t seem to fall into any of these categories- I am not aware of Durhamshire ever being used. County of Bristol and County of London referred to counties based on that particular city, not on their surroundings. Maybe County Durham was a way of noting that it was not like London and Bristol which have in their time been awarded county status for their city, but to indicate that it included all of the county surrounding Durham. Although now I have finished this I have an annoying voice telling me that County Westmoreland was once in use. At least this is the bones of a reply. Will think about it more. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/5 "2002-12-10T20:11:43Z")
This site suggests that it has someting to do with being ruled by Bishops until 1836, but I would like a real cite- [http://www.camelotintl.com/heritage/counties/england/durham.html](http://www.camelotintl.com/heritage/counties/england/durham.html) ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/6 "2002-12-10T21:25:22Z")
When the kingdom Deira existed Co Durham was the most southern possession of Northumbria. Durham was butchered in 1970 to create Tyne and Wear,I think it was after this time it became County Durham. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/7 "2002-12-10T21:29:42Z")
Tyne and Wear was created during the 1974 boundary changes. I’m confident I’d heard it described as County Durham before then. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/8 "2002-12-10T22:31:24Z")
I’m old enough to know it was called County Durham well before 74. Another question that occurs to me- looking at my list of counties above, what town does Berkshire possibly refer to? ---
**Author:** ![Tuco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tuco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuco)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/9 "2002-12-10T22:53:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pjen \* > \*\*Another question that occurs to me- looking at my list of counties above, what town does Berkshire possibly refer to? \*\* Reading (pronounced Redding). ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/10 "2002-12-10T23:04:45Z")
Durham was the only County Palatine after Tudor times – and I don’t want to get into the arcane distinction about that, but the Church of England Bishop of Durham was _ex officio_ its “count” and had some special powers not extended to anyone else. That may have a lot of bearing on the variant usage. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/11 "2002-12-11T08:29:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuco \* > \*\*Reading (pronounced Redding). \*\* I know, I used to live there, but how does Berkshire (which as I suggested above is a formation based on a county town name plus -shire) fit into this scheme? Is it another anomoly? ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/12 "2002-12-11T09:28:16Z")
A Shire was an administrative district under the authority of a sheriff - such as the Sheriff Of Notingham. Where these ancient districts have survived into the current county system the name is retained. ---
**Author:** ![Tuco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tuco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuco)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/13 "2002-12-11T10:18:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pjen \* > \*\*I know, I used to live there, but how does Berkshire (which as I suggested above is a formation based on a county town name plus -shire) fit into this scheme? Is it another anomoly? \*\* Must be another anomoly, as is Exeter in Devon(shire). My WAG is the county was named after a town, but either this town changed name, or a cathedral was built in another town making the cathedral town the county capital. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/14 "2002-12-11T11:22:10Z")
That’s what I’m guessing. But Devon and Berkshire differ- Devon used to be known mostly as the County of Devon- I believe that Devonshire is a relatively recent (last few centuries) appellation; not so for Berkshire. Let’s see if anyone else has any ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/15 "2002-12-11T14:01:40Z")
[O.E. Bearrocscir (893), from an ancient Celtic name meaning “hilly place” + O.E. scir "shire, district](http://www.geocities.com/etymonline/b2etym.htm). Looks like it might be an anomoly. ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/16 "2002-12-11T14:08:32Z")
Oh, and Devon (that etymonline is proving quite useful, although I can’t promise that it’s correct): [Devon, O.E. Defena(scir), late 9c., “(territory of the) Dumnonii,” a Celtic name](http://www.geocities.com/etymonline/d3etym.htm). ---
**Author:** ![mrcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@mrcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrcrow)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-english-dopers-why-is-it-called-county-durham/141796/17 "2002-12-11T14:51:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pjen \* > \*\*WAG: > > Several methods of referring to English counties- > > Shire counties- those ending in -shire, usually named after a county town- > \*\* och aye stirling aberdeen kikudbright clackmannan ayr blech:D