Yes, the government does seem to think that the most important thing in the world is money.
I think that people who damage merchandise SHOULD have to pay for it. However, people who get this sort of treatment tend to write to corporate headquarters, and then the shit rolls downhill onto the store manager, who decides that he’d rather have a paycheck and commission than stand up for his principles. So the next time some entitled princess (of either sex and of any age) comes in and starts tearing up the place, he’ll try to discourage the behavior but won’t charge Prince Charming for the merchandise, or file charges for vandalism.
The staff at the store SHOULD do this, I agree. However, Corporate HQ has told them to make the customers happy. So the customers who make the loudest noise get their way. This is also why stores accept broken or damaged merchandise and refund the full price, even though it’s obvious that the customer is abusing the return policy.
Stores would probably have to have additional staff on hand just to deal with all the idjits who abuse the merchandise, which would drive up prices a little bit at first (I think that the prevention of damage would pay for the extra staff over time), and as we’ve seen in this thread, many people will only consider price when they make purchases.
Spot on, 100% correct.
Not to pick on the OP because he does make some good points, but the overall attitude is doing nothing to help small businesses. I don’t know how many small places I’ve been in that the owner’s bitch about Wal-Mart and their “cheap Chinese junk”. Well 90% of the stuff that Wal-Mart sells is the same stuff that they are selling, but that is an aside.
Just look behind the register or helpfully posted around the store and you see “YOU BREAK IT, YOU BOUGHT IT” signs. $10 returned check fee. This ain’t Burger King, you don’t get it your way. No returns, no refunds, no exceptions. Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again. A racist anti-Muslim sign usually related to 9/11 or the price of oil. And a host of other signs which basically tell me, as the customer, that I should be kissing their ass for the privilege of shopping there.
Rumor Watkins has it right in that in this day and time, small businesses must have a value added to their product in order to compete with the Wal-Marts. They won’t be able to compete on price. If I am buying Tide laundry detergent, I will go where it is cheaper. I don’t care if you have Martha Stewart on staff explaining to me how to get my whites whiter. This is not something which adds value to the product and most small businesses do not understand the trend.
With the internet, most consumers do their own homework. A previous poster mentioned how a small bookseller could recommend new titles for you to buy. Sure, he can, but it’s not 1996 anymore. The overwhelming majority of people are like me who hear of a great book from chatting with a friend, or chatting on a MB online like the Dope, so I go to Amazon to order it. Hell, even if I would like to get in my vehicle, drive into town, pay for gas, and pay for parking to talk to the bookseller, I would most likely find that he is only open M-TH 9am-4pm, and I would have to miss work to shop there. Meanwhile, he will be sitting in his shop talking to two men and an old lady drinking coffee and bitching about how Amazon is killing his business.
I don’t begrudge these small business owners, but it’s not 1955 anymore. You have to change or be destroyed. One of the first steps is to accept credit/debit cards with a smile. You can bitch that people *should carry small amounts of cash, but many don’t. It’s your job as a business owner to respond to the market, not the other way around
A good question, and IANAL, but I suspect it’s not theft until the product has left the premises, and for damage, it would have to be criminal damage, and the court case and publicity really wouldn’t be worth it for the shop to prove that.
I hear ya.
I am willing to pay more to buy at a smaller, local business. I do it all the time. I do try to avoid chains if I can.
However, these smaller stores need to OFFER something! Many times a new store will open up, I will go in and they offer nothing more than a big box store except higher prices and less selection. Id rather shop at the big box.
I do sympathize with these smaller stores that do try. I once was angry with my wife for wanting to pull the old ‘use the small store for info but buy at the cheaper big box’ which, to me, is very unethical.
An example was a small, local hardware store. They had knowledgeable staff on hand. I could go in, ask about anything and get good advice. Sure, they charged more…but, to me, it was worth it. However, the owner retired and someone else bought/ran it. The knowledgeable staff disappeared and pimply teens were in their place…who knew nothing about anything. Their prices didn’t go down though…so I stopped shopping there. The new owner complained at the local business community meeting about people of the town not patronizing local, small biz.
A bookstore opened up last year in my town…a small, independent bookstore. THAT is bucking the trend! Curious, I went in. Hardly anything there! The owner was scurrying around telling everyone 'I can order any book you want! Let me know!". Well, Mrs. Owner…SO CAN I! It’s called Amazon.com and I can order it cheaper than you will charge me. What you can offer is the ability to pick up a book I want right now…and to allow me to browse many books, pick them up and look at them. You can offer authors coming in…book readings, clubs etc etc…As it stands, you offer nothing. You have no reason to exist.
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While I am sypathetic to small, local biz, I also grew up in an isolated rural environment dominated by them. They payed their employees minimum wage and offered no benefits. They also charged much more money for their wares.
I once left work at 5 to stop at a local biz to get a calculator since I lost mine. I had picked up the calc for $7.77 at a larger city during my travels the previous summer (I was a teacher at this time). I went to the local store and the door was locked. Hmmmm…looked at the hours…open 9-5. So, you cannot work and shop at this store! When I finally went in they did have the calculator. Price $34.95.
I know people wail about the ‘good jobs’ lost to the big boxes. However, from my experience, the only ‘good job’ lost was the owners and their kids/family. Walmart might not pay much and they might not have very good insurance…but they pay more than minimum wage and they actually HAVE some benefits.
Thanks for this post. It’s well thought out and well expressed.
I think people have misunderstood the suggestion I made about CC.
I understand the attraction and the convenience of CCs. I love my debit card for many of the reasons you listed and use it almost daily.
In the long run we do pay for the convenience of CCs. because every merchant has to consider the fees they pay when setting prices. That includes small merchants. I’ve seen several small merchants try to have a minimum purchase for plastic and that usually alienates more customers than it’s worth.
I **am not ** claiming there is any moral imperative for anyone to use cash. I’m only suggesting that we can consider the details and the people involved when doing business. We know that if we use cash for small purchases the merchant in front of us gets to keep more of the money rather than pay fees to the bank.
Of course we consider our own preferences and our own convenience. People’s lives are different and and some people may not have several opportunities to get to a bank or get cash back at a store that offers that. Many do. All of those factors weigh on the choice. There’s nothing wrong, inferior, or stupid, about showing your local merchant some consideration and enduring a minor inconvenience to help them out, is there?
I see. Considering it’s limitations it’s not really what we were talking about but I’ve give it to you on a technicality. 
It was both. We had a lot of the same models and usually a model or two that was uniquely ours. Another issue was that customers often didn’t know the difference between models. When we explained that it actually wasn’t the same item even though it looked similar at first glance , they often interpreted that as “no intention of price matching” We also offered 10% of the difference as well so if an item was $10 dollars cheaper they got $11. Every now and then a customer thought they ought to get 10% off the total price and when I explained the policy one guy said “That’s a rip off” Um no sir it’s not a rip off because you didn’t understand it. Anything other than a simple price match is gravy to you.
Heh, maybe they should have advertised it more. 
Specifics are necessary to avoid widespread abuse. I get your point but it’s unavoidable that customers need to read the details to know if they or their item qualifies. The policy is usually readily available to read, or it was where I worked. Hopefully, the fact that they offer a price match at all hopefully brings in business.
One little game we ran into was companies that offered a mail in rebate for a month or two just before a price drop. Customers would want us to match price of a store that had item X for $20 with no mail in rebate so they could also use the mail in rebate and get the thing for some ridiculous price. Our written policy actually didn’t cover this but what we told them was our price was already the same after rebate and the company obviously didn’t intend to sell the item for that little. Some sure liked to argue though.
Sorry :o
Yes I remember the past. Do you remember my past posts in this thread?
I am not advocating not using CCs at all.
Most of your post I agree with except for this. Stores that have flexible return policies do so because it is more profitable in the long run than turning everything away. Retail is a business and, it’s true, happy customers (read: satisfied) become loyal customers which breeds success.
I, for one, tend to avoid stores with crappy return policies. I shopped at Target much less when they made returning stuff either impossible or a total PITA. I won’t buy anything more complex than retractable rollerball pens from Office Depot. I won’t even step foot in a Burlington Coat Factory. (I’ve been very lucky at Best Buy, though.)
However, I think understand why they do it. Once a larger percentage of the customer base begins to abuse the return policy or the lower the quality of retailer’s inventory, the more those returns begin to eat into the bottom line. For retailers that stock high quality merchandise at prices that reflect that quality, the less returns affect the bottom line. At that point, a restrictive return policy only serves to discourage sales rather than offset the loss from returns. Many retailers have learned that a reasonable or even generous return policy is much better for business.
Frankly, I wouldn’t expect Walmart to have a decent return policy because they sell low quality merchandise to extremely price-conscious customers, but then again, perhaps their massive sales volume allows them to write off the minute percentage of loss from returns without much impact on the bottom line.
By and large, retailers suffer a much greater loss from outright theft than from careless handling in the store. But it doesn’t necessarily always require more staff to prevent loss. It does require decent training in LP of all the staff. Ever wander around a store needing assistance but have trouble finding anyone? That store probably has higher shrink than the stores you wander around and are consistently approached by staff. When I walk up to you and ask “Are you finding everything okay?” it’s not just because I’m trying to be helpful. The subtext is “I see you” or, if you’re acting suspiciously, “I am watching you.” Creepy, but true. That is incredibly effective.
The problem with adding additional staff to handle the idjits who abuse merchandise, is nearly half of all shrink is attributed to employee theft. It’s likely to cost the store more than it saves if it even solves the small problem of in-store damage.
And, yes, you are right: shrink costs us all.
That’s all fine. It just doesn’t relate to the points I was making.
I agree some changes are inevitable and business is about competition. I never even hinted that people should patronize a small business using cash even when it’s terribly inconvenient and way more expensive.
Best Buy was sued years ago for instructing it’s employees to blatantly lie in order to sell it’s extended warranty. A good honest friend of mine worked for them and used to interrupt sales meetings to remind the bosses “You cannot legally instruct us and compel us to lie” He wasn’t to popular.
Right. As I said, Bad company policies have encouraged and rewarded bad customer habits.
I applaud a manager who told an irate customer that she had to pay for an item that she had given her child to play with and the child destroyed. It’s infuriating to think this woman sincerely thought she shouldn’t have to pay for it.
Two recent incidents. A family came in Mom Dad and three kids. The kids weren’t loud but they wandered the store picking things up carrying them around and playing with them and dropping them where ever as the parents shopped. At one point one child dropped a toy she was carrying on the floor right beside the parents and they stepped over it to continue on. The kids were sword fighting with wrapping paper which is sorta okay if you’re planning on buying that paper
but when the kids just dropped it in the aisle and walked on it was obvious they weren’t going to buy it. They finally come to the counter with a couple of items and ask questions. Their kids have several small toys in their hands that a parts of other larger toys. I told them I needed all those small toys back and the parents gathered their kids and left. No comment, no nothing.
We had a shipment of fragrances come in with really good prices. Box sets that were marked 23.99 we were selling for 12.99 etc. I put up signs asking customers to please not open the boxes.
I understand the desire to smell the perfume or cologne before you buy it but does that mean you should ignore the sign. Isn’t that a bit like “Fuck You” to the merchant?
The problem is people will open box after box to try them and soon half our inventory is destroyed. If we put out samples those will be destroyed or stolen almost daily. This is a discount store not Dillards perfume counter. If you don’t recognize the brand and aren’t sure don’t buy it or at least have the courtesy to ask like some folks do.
I watched a lady open four boxes and to her credit she was being fairly careful. Finally I went over and politely explained why we’d rather she didn’t open the boxes. She put the two items in her cart back on the shelf and decided not to buy the one we carried to the front for her simply because I had the nerve to politely ask her to not open boxes.
Personally I think cultivating better manners and a little consideration for our fellow humans as well as taking responsibility for your actions and your kids actions, is better for society in the long run. Not that I think there’s a realistic chance of that.
I hope you and others realize that all I was and am suggesting was that if a local business does a good job and offers competitive prices perhaps it’s worth giving them your money and letting the small local business be one of the factors in considering where you spend your money. Pretty much what you just described concerning the hardware store.
When I lived in a small town in Maine we had a local hardware store like that and I never minded giving them my money because they always helped with good information. I might have saved a couple of dollars by buying in a larger town where I worked but I chose not to.
OTOH there’s a small liquor store at the end of my street. I’ve shopped there through two different owners because they were friendly and helpful. They answered my questions, would look things up, and order something for me if they could. The new owners keep the place dirty,items are often not priced and they barely acknowledge you when you come in. Now I’ll avoid them even though they’re at the end of my street unless time is crucial.
Yeah, I’m not holding my breath either… 
I get what you’re saying, here, about not thinking about all commercial transactions as an entirely adversarial process.
I do try to use cash for small purchases at a few small businesses I frequent, or save up a few small purchases so that they’re one big purchase. The latter is my preference, because then I still get all the bonuses of credit cards with a minor downside.
Note: I’m replying to several people here, and replying only to bits of their various posts, so no attribution.
I also get recommendations here. However, the guy who owns the comic and game store knows me now, and he’s very good at predicting just which series I like. He runs the shop by himself, as far as I know, and he’s open 7 days a week, noon to 8 PM Tuesday-Saturday, and noon to 6 PM Sunday and Monday. Most small businesses will be open at least on Saturday, and sometimes Sunday as well, in order to be able to get the business of people who work banker’s hours. It’s quite common for a small business to close on Sunday and Monday, or Monday and Tuesday, if the owner is the one who is mostly running it. Occasionally you will see someone with some rather restricted hours, but quite frequently they’ll also be open by appointment.
Oh, I’m not saying that stores should refuse to allow refunds or returns, for the most part. However, one of my old managers used to do things like buy new batteries for an appliance, put the old batteries in the package, and return the package, saying that the batteries didn’t work. That’s abuse of the return policy. And of course people copy computer programs all the time and try to return the program, saying it won’t work. That’s why most places will only allow computer programs to be exchanged for the exact same program, if the package has been opened. When I worked at the clothing store, we had a lot of women try to bring back clothes that had obviously been worn. We also had women bringing back stuff six months after the sale. Now, if the item in question is a pair of navy blue slacks, we can probably sell it again. But if the item is Last Year’s Hot Shit, it’s gonna LOOK like Last Year’s Hot Shit, and we can’t sell it now (wrong season), and next year we’ll have to try to sell it at a discount, and it probably won’t move.
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If an item is returned promptly, and in the same condition as it was sold, and if it hasn’t been used, and if it’s not subject to abuse (like the computer programs mentioned above), then the store should issue a refund or credit, preferably refund, with a minimum of hassle. However, so many customers abuse returns that it’s necessary to set some limits.
Heh. This was always the first thing that I was told when I was hired for a retail position. We were supposed to greet everyone who walked in the door within 30 seconds, I believe. The reason I was given is exactly what you said…it helps prevent loss by customers. Someone who is greeted supposedly will feel that the store is friendlier, and also that the staff is aware of what’s going on.
While I can sympathize with your store not wanting to have its samples stolen or destroyed, EVERY perfume, even the cheapest (and probably especially the cheapest) needs to have a sampler available. I might love the smell of Joy on my best friend, but that doesn’t mean that I’ll love it on myself. Perfume interacts with the wearer’s body chemistry, so the ideal method to buy a new perfume is to spritz some on at the wrist or inner elbow, wait for 15 minutes or so, and then sniff it to see if it’s pleasing on you. Now, if it’s an old favorite, it doesn’t have to be tried again unless they reformulate it. But here your customers have a legitimate reason to want a sampler available.
You must be talking about Victoria’s Secret…
I know you’re joking, but we were a small chain of something like 8 stores in 3 or 4 states. Since we sold plus sized clothes, we had a lot of men shopping for drag outfits. Some were actually transvestites (and I had a couple of pretty reliable male customers who loved me, because I didn’t judge them), and some just wanted to be a woman for Halloween. And we had plenty of women who wanted to wear a fancy dress to a wedding, and then get their money back after they’d danced and partied in that dress for an evening.
Thanks for getting it. It’s really a simple straight forward concept