# For fuck's sake, the flag burning amendment AGAIN?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434 "2005-06-22T20:45:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/21 "2005-06-22T21:20:04Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > It is wrong to do, just plain wrong, and shouldn’t be done by anyone. That summarizes everything that is wrong with the conservative right — I don’t like it; therefore, no one should do it. The only difference between your sentiment and that of a socialist is the object of your fetishes — I don’t have any money; therefore, no one should have any. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/22 "2005-06-22T21:20:43Z")
I heard it said once that “The essence of America is the balance between ‘freedom to’ and ‘freedom from’.” If the flag burning amendment was adopted it would remove “burn the flag” from the things we have the freedom to do. It would also add to the list of things we are not free from, meaning prosecution for an act which does no harm to anyone and has in the past been considered a means of protective speech. Freedom from overbearing nanny states who decide for individuals what should and should not be considered sacrosanct(especially if the flag was purchased for the purpose) seems very American. Freedom to express yourself, even to the extreme of attacking the symbol of an institution you are in conflict with, is also very American. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/23 "2005-06-22T21:20:53Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > A flag burning AMENDMENT?? Really! There is a certain logic. Congress tried to pass a law against it, but the SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional. Not justifying, just explaining, folks!! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/24 "2005-06-22T21:21:46Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > How do you get rid of a tarnished or ruined flag? What is the proper procedure? The private incineration of a worn flag or the dignified ceremonies organizations like the American Legion perform are worlds away from burning or desecrating a flag in protest. But you knew that. Let’s keep our minds on what the real issue is, and please note that I am not in favor of the amendment. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/25 "2005-06-22T21:22:15Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That summarizes everything that is wrong with the conservative right — I don’t like it; therefore, no one should do it. The only difference between your sentiment and that of a socialist is the object of your fetishes — I don’t have any money; therefore, no one should have any. You really are a glutton for punishment, aren’t you? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/26 "2005-06-22T21:22:29Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Why? > > I wouldn’t dream of burning the flag myself, with or without an amendment. And you don’t seem to be the type to burn one in any case. > > You’ve always struck me as a patriotic sort, **Guinastasia** , even if you’re on the _other side_. > > I don’t think the amendment is needed. But burning the flag is needlessly hurtful to others while conveying no useful political message to anybody. It is wrong to do, just plain wrong, and shouldn’t be done by anyone. I’m not **Guin** , but I feel the same way so I’ll throw my answer to this in here. The ideals of personal freedom of this country are far more important than the symbols and traditions honoring it. Weakening the former to strengthen the latter would deeply offend and outrage me, _because_ I love this country. You say that flag-burning would convey no political message; I disagree. If large numbers of people who love this country started burning flags in protest, it would send a powerful message. [sub]On preview, I see I am very slow. Curses.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/27 "2005-06-22T21:23:10Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > There is a certain logic. Congress tried to pass a law against it, but the SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional. Not justifying, just explaining, folks!! What happens when two amendments conflict? Can SCROTUS declare this one in contradiction to another? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/28 "2005-06-22T21:24:12Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > You really are a glutton for punishment, aren’t you? 🙂 Huh? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/29 "2005-06-22T21:26:12Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Why? > > I wouldn’t dream of burning the flag myself, with or without an amendment. And you don’t seem to be the type to burn one in any case. > > You’ve always struck me as a patriotic sort, **Guinastasia** , even if you’re on the _other side_. > > I don’t think the amendment is needed. But burning the flag is needlessly hurtful to others while conveying no useful political message to anybody. It is wrong to do, just plain wrong, and shouldn’t be done by anyone. I’d think freedom of speech would be of greater importance than a flag buring amendment. But, that said, > [@Otto](#): > > With all the actual problems facing the country, what is it that’s consuming the time and energy of the House? The fucking flag burning amendment. Because that’s the most vitally critically important issue facing the American people, a couple of wingnuts taking a match to Old Fucking Glory. And now it’s supposedly within a couple of votes of passing the Senate and being sent to the states for ratification. I don’t think gay marriage is a particularly pressing national issue, either. I’ve got no problem with it, but it’s taken up some congressional time lately. A “Marriage Amendment” seems to be something else we don’t really need (and note that the amendment proposed would ban same-sex marriages before anybody starts with the homophobe stuff). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/30 "2005-06-22T21:28:32Z")
SCROTUS? Bwa-ha-ha-ha! ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/31 "2005-06-22T21:28:37Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What happens when two amendments conflict? Can SCROTUS declare this one in contradiction to another? I was wondering the same thing. Also, thanks **lno**. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/32 "2005-06-22T21:28:52Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That summarizes everything that is wrong with the conservative right — I don’t like it; therefore, no one should do it. The only difference between your sentiment and that of a socialist is the object of your fetishes — I don’t have any money; therefore, no one should have any. I have said I don’t favor the amendment, **Liberal**. That doesn’t mean I think flags ought to be burned. We have a flag code in this country, spelling out how the flag ought to be treated. This code is well established in American custom, and ought to be respected as a part of our national heritage. By the same token, a belief in freedom of speech doesn’t mean that I think any more Ashlee Simpson albums ought to be made. Freedom can be put to some pretty disgusting ends, obviously. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/33 "2005-06-22T21:29:36Z")
Can this actually pass? Are things that fucking stupid at this point? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/34 "2005-06-22T21:30:10Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > By the same token, a belief in freedom of speech doesn’t mean that I think any more Ashlee Simpson albums ought to be made. Freedom can be put to some pretty disgusting ends, obviously. 😉 OMG! I agree with Mr.Moto about something! Horrors! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/35 "2005-06-22T21:30:11Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What happens when two amendments conflict? Can SCROTUS declare this one in contradiction to another? The latest one holds. Think prohibition. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/36 "2005-06-22T21:31:07Z")
I don’t think you should be able to burn THE flag of the Unisted States (BTW, which one is THE flag; is it the the one flying over the Capitol?) Burning A flag of the United States is a different manner. The constitution is another matter. Might as well burn that, no one is using it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/37 "2005-06-22T21:31:58Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > We have a flag code in this country, spelling out how the flag ought to be treated. This code is well established in American custom, and ought to be respected as a part of our national heritage. Eating turkey on Thanksgiving is also an established American custom, but that doesn’t make it “wrong” to have pasta instead. Incidentally, I remember having the “flag code” illustrated on the lid of the pencil box I was given in the third grade. Even at that young age, I thought it was immensely stupid to invest that much effort in a scrap of fabric. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/38 "2005-06-22T21:31:58Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Can this actually pass? Are things that fucking stupid at this point? They really might be. Most likely, the amendment will not survive a Senate vote, but it is getting frighteningly close. If the Senate passes it, would sufficient states also ratify it? ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/39 "2005-06-22T21:33:25Z")
> [@lno](#): > > [Here you go](http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/5470846.html), sorted by state and political party. Thanks, **Ino**. Now I’m disgusted with California for a completely new reason. How in the great blue fuck could anyone think this amendment is necessary, let alone worth the paid time they spent talking about it. They’re all getting letters. Beware the fury of an angry chicken! ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434/40 "2005-06-22T21:34:11Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Huh? 😕 Here is how I understood **John Mace** ’s statement, “You really are a glutton for punishment, aren’t you?” I (Scott) feel that, unlike many of your past statements, “That summarizes everything that is wrong with the conservative right” is correct, and quite supportable. However, John either feels it is not supportable, but also feels his statement should be taken lightly, or some other thing, I can’t tell what. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-fucks-sake-the-flag-burning-amendment-again/309434.md?page=3)