# ? for Harlan Ellison fans
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [March 2, 2000, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928 "2000-03-02T17:54:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2000, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/1 "2000-03-02T17:54:00Z")
I had a comic book (“The Avengers”) which was based on a Harlan Ellison short story “Five Dooms to Save Tomorrow.”
Can anyone give a compilation that includes this story.
(In the comic book, an average Joe is unwittingly carrying the power to destroy the world, and The Watcher (pledged not to interfere with lesser races) interferes once again, violating the Prime Directive just as Kirk and Company did so many times, but helping to save Earth in the meantime.)
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### Author:  [@Ursa\_Major](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ursa_Major)
#### Post date: [March 3, 2000, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/2 "2000-03-03T06:17:00Z")
Actually, I think this story was an original, written especially for Marvel, and not based on a short story.
Here’s the publishing history,
[http://www.steampunk.com/sfch/bibliographies/hecbb.html](http://www.steampunk.com/sfch/bibliographies/hecbb.html)
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### Author:  [@Ursa\_Major](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ursa_Major)
#### Post date: [March 3, 2000, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/3 "2000-03-03T06:20:00Z")
Here’s another good site,
[http://www.enteract.com/~chrisday/Ellison/Original1.html](http://www.enteract.com/~chrisday/Ellison/Original1.html)
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### Author:  [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2000, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/4 "2000-03-02T19:16:00Z")
Aaahhhhh! People after my own heart! I read/re-read _lots_ of Harlan, and have enjoyed his talents for years. Even named my website for his _Dreamcorridor_ series. He lives near a great bookstore called Dangerous Vision in the valley in S.CA.
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### Author:  [@MrKnowItAll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrKnowItAll)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2000, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/5 "2000-03-02T23:40:00Z")
Man, I love Ellison! I’m still waiting (more and more impatiently all the time) for Edgeworks V to come out. It will reprint the two “Glass Teat” compilations.
Here’s yet another site mentioning “Five Dooms to Save Tomorrow”
[http://harlanellison.com/text/comicbib.txt](http://harlanellison.com/text/comicbib.txt)
This is on HE’s official webpage, [Ellison Webderland](http://harlanellison.com/home.htm). One of my favorite sites, although it doesn’t get updated very often.
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_Now with 1000 posts of pure wisdom!_
(or something)
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [March 3, 2000, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/6 "2000-03-03T00:58:00Z")
You might have to wait a bit for Edgeworks V. I heard that the publishing company is not going to put out anymore because there are going off in a new direction. H.E. will have to find a new publisher, I guess. I have both Glass Teat books, but I wouldn’t mind seeing how he updates them.
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### Author:  [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)
#### Post date: [March 3, 2000, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/7 "2000-03-03T02:01:00Z")
Anyone who lives in the L. A. area can see Unca Harlan and others discuss the original version of _The Outer Limits_. Harlan wrote two episodes, “The Soldier” and “Demon With a Glass Hand.” Actors Robert Culp (“Demon”) and Martin Landau and producers Robert Justman (who was also a _Star Trek_ producer) and Joseph Stefano will also be there.
Where? At the Directors Guild of America Theater at 7920 Sunset Boulevard.
When? March 10 at 7PM.
How much? $15.
More info can be found here: [http://mtr.org/exhibit/paley17/paley.htm](http://mtr.org/exhibit/paley17/paley.htm)
It’s all part of the William S. Paley Television Festival. Other shows, past and present covered are _M_A_S_H, That 70s Show, The Carol Burnett Show, South Park\* (Meet Trey Parker and Matt Stone!) _Get a Life, Dharma & Greg, Freaks and Geeks_ and _The West Wing._
_The Outer Limits_ was one of the best anthology SF shows on TV, second only to _The Twilight Zone_, IMHO.
TRIVIA: Harlan Ellison noticed many similarities between _The Terminator_ and his two _Outer Limits_ episodes. (There’s also a similarity between Skynet and Harlan’s “I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream.”) He sued James Cameron and Harlan won. Now, every copy of _The Terminator_ on home video must carry an acknowledgment of the works of Harlan Ellison. I think he also got a nice chunk of cash, too! 🙂
Years ago, after I heard about this, I watched Harlan’s two _Limits_ episodes with my brother and, well, we lost count of the number of similarities we spotted.
Harlan deserved to win.
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When all else fails, ask Cecil.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [March 4, 2000, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/8 "2000-03-04T00:16:00Z")
By the way, Ellison completists can find his article “Dostoevesky Never Wrote for Tony, Either, So Get on with Your Life” in the SFWA Bulletin. It’s an appreciation of the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction.
You can order it from the Bulletin for $4.99 at 1436 Altamont Ave., PMB 292, Schenectady, NY 12303-0297.
Sorry about the plug, but I need to sell a few more of these to make up for the cancelled subsciptions. 🙂
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“What we have here is failure to communicate.” – Strother Martin, anticipating the Internet.
[www.sff.net/people/rothman](http://www.sff.net/people/rothman)
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### Author:  [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2000, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/9 "2000-03-09T03:15:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Originally posted by jab1:
> **Anyone who lives in the L. A. area can see Unca Harlan and others discuss the original version of _The Outer Limits_. Harlan wrote two episodes, “The Soldier” and “Demon With a Glass Hand.” Actors Robert Culp (“Demon”) and Martin Landau and producers Robert Justman (who was also a _Star Trek_ producer) and Joseph Stefano will also be there.**
Actually, Harlan won’t be there after all, and neither will Robert Culp. See [http://harlanellison.com/news.html](http://harlanellison.com/news.html)
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When all else fails, ask Cecil.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2000, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/10 "2000-03-15T07:44:00Z")
At the risk of starting a flame war I really don’t see much of a similarity between Terminator and Demon with a glass hand. Sure there are time traveling robots in both, but in T1, the robot is trying to destroy humanity and in Demon the glass hand dude is trying to save it. There are aliens in demon, an evil computer in Terminator. However my memory of Demon is kind of shaky. Could someone who has seen it recently point out the similarities that would justify a copyright suit.
BTW, I am a fan of both Ellison and Cameron
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Having an open mind means you put out a welcome mat and answer the door politely. It does not mean leaving the door open with a sign saying nobody’s home
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2000, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/11 "2000-03-15T10:35:00Z")
Actually, James Cameron and Harlan Ellison settled out of court about the acknowledgement in the credits of _The Terminator_. It would have been interesting to see it go to court. Part of Cameron’s problem was that he was just stupid about the stuff that he ripped off of Ellison. He was giving interviews in which he was saying that he was influenced by the look of certain episodes of _The Outer Limits_.
At that point, Ellison threatened to take him to court. Cameron’s lawyers told him to settle, so they gave Ellison $100,000 and told him that all future showings of _The Terminator_ would have the credit “With Acknowledgement to the Works of Harlan Ellison”. Then the film showed on cable, and the credit was missing. Apparently Cameron figured that money was enough to satisfy Ellison and that no one really cared about the credit. (And, besides, the rule in Hollywood is that you never admit to plagiarism in public. Give people all the money they want, but never admit to anything.) So Ellison’s lawyers went back to Cameron’s lawyers, and Ellison got another $100,000 and Cameron agreed to be in the acknowledgement.
Then the videotape version of the film came out, and the acknowledgement was _still_ missing. Apparently Cameron still thought that, given enough money, Ellison would just go away. The lawyers got together again. This time Ellison got another $200,000, and finally the credit appeared in the film.
For what it’s worth though, the case was shakier than it seems. While I see the resemblance of the film to the episodes “Soldier” and “Demon with a Glass Hand”, I see other resemblances too. There’s another episode of _The Outer Limits_, whose name I don’t know, about a man from some post-World-War-II world who travels back in time to find the mother of the man who caused the war. He takes her away so he can stop her from ever having the child. That episode wasn’t written by Ellison. There are also resemblances to the Philip K. Dick story “Second Variety” (which was eventually made into a movie called _Screamers_). It has unstoppable post-apocalyptic robots just like in _The Terminator_. The script made from “Second Variety” circulated in Hollywood for about 15 years before it got produced. There’s apparently good reason to think that Cameron saw that script at one point.
_The Terminator_ is a pastiche of science fiction ideas from all over the place. I think it’s a great film, but it steals from everything. I suspect that Cameron, who’s the same age as I am (born in 1952), like me watched _The Outer Limits_ as a child and absorbed the ideas in it so much that he’s unaware how much any s.f. ideas he has come from all his childhood reading and watching. At least in _The Terminator_ Cameron ripped off some interesting ideas.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2000, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/12 "2000-03-15T13:44:00Z")
You can talk about the vengeance of God all you want, but for REAL retribution, try pissing off Harlan Ellison!
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### Author:  [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2000, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/13 "2000-03-15T15:55:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Originally posted by slythe:
> **You can talk about the vengeance of God all you want, but for REAL retribution, try pissing off Harlan Ellison!**
HA! This is a true thing, and I wouldn’t want to send this man hate mail either and not sign it. Talk about an irratated author! I love it! 😉
I’ve seen him publish the home address and phone number of some harrassers that tried to stay anonymous, he called another lady while on air at a radio station, and flew across the country to show up at the house of one particularly nasty letter writer.
I have to admit it he’s given me some great ideas in the “don’t get mad, get even” department.
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### Author:  [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2000, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/14 "2000-03-15T15:57:00Z")
😉
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Carpe Jugulum
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### Author:  [@Guy\_Propski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Propski)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2000, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/15 "2000-03-15T19:58:00Z")
Wendall–the OL’s episode you’re trying to remember was “The Man Who Was Never Born”, written by Anthony Lawrence, starring Martin Landau.
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### Author:  [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2000, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/16 "2000-03-16T06:17:00Z")
If you think his conflict with Cameron is scary, you should read about what happened with him and the producers of The Starlost.
Unfortunately, I don’t remember which book it’s in.
At the risk of shameless name dropping, my former neighbors in New York (Leo & Diane Dillon) illustrate many of his books.
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### Author:  [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2000, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/17 "2000-03-16T06:18:00Z")
[The Official Harlan Ellison homepage](http://www.harlanellison.com/home.htm)
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### Author:  [@MrKnowItAll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrKnowItAll)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2000, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/18 "2000-03-16T13:08:00Z")
The story of “The Starlost” is covered in Ellison’s essay “Somehow, I Don’t Think We’re in Kansas, Toto”. It can be found in three places: The introduction to the novelization called _Phoenix Without Ashes_, _Stalking the Nightmare_, and _The Essential Ellison_. As part of _Stalking the Nightmare_, it is also reprinted in _Edgeworks 2_.
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_God is my co-pilot. Blame Him._
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2000, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/19 "2000-03-16T13:16:00Z")
It was also fictionalized in a funny novel, _The Starcrossed_.
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [March 16, 2000, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/20 "2000-03-16T14:14:00Z")
Two points:
The last sentence in my previous post should say, “So Ellison’s lawyers went back to Cameron’s lawyers, and Ellison got another $100,000 and Cameron agreed to put in the acknowledgement.”
Take any statement that Ellison makes with a grain of salt. He’s famous for concocting stories to make himself look better. Some of his exploits are true, but others are clearly invented. I can tell you some details if you’d like.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928.md?page=2)