# ? for Harlan Ellison fans **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 2, 2000, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928 "2000-03-02T17:54:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guy\_Propski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@Guy\_Propski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Propski)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2000, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/21 "2000-03-16T15:36:00Z")
Wendall–what are you, his live-in houseboy? Only two people can tell you what happened in an Ellison situation–Ellison and the other person involved. Anyone else is reporting third-hand. ---
**Author:** ![MrKnowItAll](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrknowitall/32/87_2.png) [@MrKnowItAll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrKnowItAll)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2000, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/22 "2000-03-16T23:09:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Wendell Wagner: > **Take any statement that Ellison makes with a grain of salt. He’s famous for concocting stories to make himself look better. Some of his exploits are true, but others are clearly invented. I can tell you some details if you’d like.** Ok, I’m game. Let’s hear those details. * * * _God is my co-pilot. Blame Him._ ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2000, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/23 "2000-03-17T04:22:00Z")
Wendall, Thanks for that fascinating story. It makes sense because I can’t see how Ellison could ever have won a court case. My uninformed guess is that Hoolywood execs just offered him a settlement to get him to shut up and go away. At the time of T1, Cameron may not have had the clout to fight this decision. Remember 100K may seem like a lot to you and me but its chump change to hollywood. Still, Although my memory of Demon is vague, I still can’t see what kind of case Ellison could possibly have put forth that would not have been immediately dismissed. I’m not a lawyer but I think the standards for copyright infringement are pretty high, close to outright plagarism. If Ellison had a case then why didn’t the makers of “Earth versus the flying Saucers” sue the makers of “Independence day.” For that matter Why don’t the estates of H.G. Wells and Jules Verne sue half the S.F. writers and filmakers in the world. However if his case was weak why didn’t Hollywood get it quickly dismissed. Don’t they have lawyers on retainer? Any body out there got an answer? any Copyright attorneys? * * * Having an open mind means you put out a welcome mat and answer the door politely. It does not mean leaving the door open with a sign saying nobody’s home ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2000, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/24 "2000-03-17T04:23:00Z")
Wendell, Sorry about “Wendall” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2000, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/25 "2000-03-17T15:05:00Z")
Re Copyright First of all, you can’t copyright ideas. So if Independence Day steals its ideas from all and sundry, it’s perfectly legal. If they included footage from another film, then they’re violating copyright. The works of Verne and Welles are in the public domain, so anyone can do what they want with them. Hollywood does not cave in to every copyright infringement suit; they’re quite willing to fight. $100K may be chump change to them, but if they have to pay it to any wierdo who claims Hollywood has stolen their ideas, it’ll run into real money real fast. I don’t really see that much connection between Terminator (not T2) and the two Outer Limits Episodes for it to be plagiarism. I’d have to see what Harlan was actually claiming to judge what merits his case had. As far as Harlan himself, I’ve heard some things, and seen others, that indicate he is very . . . complex. However, he was quite nice (if insistent) in my (very limited) dealings with him, and since we share a common enemy, that puts me among his allies. 🙂 * * * “What we have here is failure to communicate.” – Strother Martin, anticipating the Internet. [www.sff.net/people/rothman](http://www.sff.net/people/rothman) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2000, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/26 "2000-03-20T05:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by RealityChuck: > \*\*Re Copyright > > First of all, you can’t copyright ideas. So if Independence Day steals its ideas from all and sundry, it’s perfectly legal. If they included footage from another film, then they’re violating copyright. > > That’s my point. All Demon and Terminator had in common were a few ideas, used very differently. Thus I don’t see the basis for a suit. > Hollywood does not cave in to every copyright infringement suit; they’re quite willing to fight. $100K may be chump change to them, but if they have to pay it to any wierdo who claims Hollywood has stolen their ideas, it’ll run into real money real fast. > > Okay, so then why did they urge settlement on such a meritless, baseless suit? > \*\* I don’t know why I’ve gotten so curious about this. I apologize for repeatedly bumping this thread, but I would really like to know what was going on. If there is anyone with knowledge of this case I’d like to hear from them, or any copyright lawyer who could come up with a hypothetical argument in Ellison’s favor. BTW, I’m not saying anything about Ellison himself, pro or con. I’m only posting this as an interesting (to me anyway) legal question. I’ve heard he’s pugnacious, but since I don’t deal with him personally, it’s not something I care about. I do admire his work. Maybe I should ask Cecil. * * * Perked Ears indicate curiosity - Know Your Cat ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2000, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928/27 "2000-03-20T05:18:00Z")
sorry, I messed up te quotes in that post. I’m knew at this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-harlan-ellison-fans/14928.md?page=1)