# For metro-NYC Dopers: How did you like Giuliani pre 9-11? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 16, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264 "2007-06-16T16:55:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/21 "2007-06-18T19:04:28Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] He also tried to do away with Taxis. [/QUOTE] What was this about? If you were to ask me and most people to give “20 keywords” (possibly “10 keywords”) they associate with NYC this would be on the list as I always think of it being the taxi capitol of the world. ---
**Author:** ![miamouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@miamouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miamouse)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/22 "2007-06-18T19:59:36Z")
> **[hinduonnet.com](http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1512/15120550.htm)** > > Find information, resources and relevant links for hinduonnet.com. This domain may be for sale. > [@](#): > > Only when acts of immense brutality occur (such as the mutilation of a Haitian, Abner Louima) do people feel emboldened to protest. Or else, the unions provide a holding operation against the worst excesses of City Hall. In this context, the taxi workers’ strikes have been remarkable; the most significant in the city’s labour history in the past three decades. > > The fact that most of the taxi workers are immigrants has led the Mayor to belittle them as part of the general anti-immigrant sentiment in the United States. “When there is a strike or a demonstration,” he said on May 12, “it’s largely for more wages. This is a strike and a demonstration for the purpose of being able to drive recklessly and have nothing done about it. This is a theatre of the absurd.” Typically, Guiliani portrayed himself as a champion of the “concerned consumer” and the “responsible citizen” in opposition to the “irresponsible worker” and the “lawless immigrant”. The taxi workers find his characterisation of them to be another example of the systematic denigration faced by them. [http://www.workers.org/ww/1998/taxi0618.php](http://www.workers.org/ww/1998/taxi0618.php) > [@](#): > > On May 21, the motorcade and the second one-day strike brought together hundreds of drivers. They poured into lower Manhattan and surrounded the Taxi & Limousine Commission during a public hearing at which the commission planned to impose 17 arbitrary and punitive regulations demanded by Giuliani. > > The TLC was so shaken up that it went into secret session to pass 15 of them-even though state law prohibits secret decisions during public hearings. > > State court appeals to overturn the regulations have been filed. > > The mayor has tried to provoke, intimidate, inflame and prejudice the public against the drivers. Giuliani and his police commissioner have called the drivers “taxi terrorists.” The drivers have displayed incredible stamina and courage in fighting these racist, immigrant-bashing and anti-worker tactics. Sorry that both of these links are skewed (everything else about the strikes is a pay article), but you can see how powerless people felt. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/23 "2007-06-18T20:21:46Z")
[Rudy Giuliani speaks out on ferrets.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqrEw901KXE) Anyone actually considering this man for president needs to listen to this and wonder if this man should lead the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![bbs2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@bbs2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbs2k)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/24 "2007-06-18T20:34:28Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] [Rudy Giuliani speaks out on ferrets.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqrEw901KXE) Anyone actually considering this man for president needs to listen to this and wonder if this man should lead the U.S. [/QUOTE] He belongs in MPSIMS, he’s a cat person. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/25 "2007-06-18T20:36:25Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] I remember reading that NYPD rookies had a starting salary in the 1990s that was around $25K or some other similarly ridiculous amount- essentially a Manhattan cop could only live in Manhattan if he lived with his parents or had several roommates. Is Giuliani the reason that went up or was that before his time? [/QUOTE] It is still very low. But you should know that the way the union contracts are written, it is virturally impossible to not get overtime pay every week you work. I have always had mixed feelings about Rudy. Basically he will not suprise you. He is, pretty much, up front about himself. That is a quality that is lacking in most politicians. However, he is a monstrous jerk. If he were President when the ‘Abu Grave’ scandal hit, he would have been defending the Guard units and the general in charge of the prision would have gotten another star. But if you know Rudy, that is exactly what you would expect him to do. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/26 "2007-06-18T20:39:29Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] I have always had mixed feelings about Rudy. Basically he will not suprise you. He is, pretty much, up front about himself. That is a quality that is lacking in most politicians. However, he is a monstrous jerk. If he were President when the ‘Abu Grave’ scandal hit, he would have been defending the Guard units and the general in charge of the prision would have gotten another star. [/QUOTE] Don’t forget backing the troops despite any facts that may arise, blaming the media, and releasing the juvenile records of those photographed. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/27 "2007-06-18T20:43:45Z")
As a friend of mine said, “Giuliani thinks he’s Batman, he became obsessed with saving Gotham, and then as he got older he starting going batshit crazy.” ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/28 "2007-06-18T21:29:16Z")
Yes, by all means, choose your next president based on his opinions about ferrets. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/29 "2007-06-18T21:53:43Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Yes, by all means, choose your next president based on his opinions about ferrets. [/QUOTE] While Rudy’s opinion on ferrets won’t put him on any of my invite lists, my disdain for him is less about his opinion on ferrets and more on his approach to the issue. The way he insults and belittles the caller was beyond the pale. It was just another example of how Giuliani treated anyone who didn’t agree with him. Giuliani takes a stance on a position - in this case it was a woefully misinformed stance - and not only did he refuse to listen to any counter, he strong-armed the housing commission into passing the amendment (it was not a law and didn’t have to go through City Council), and when the City Council brought up a bill to overturn the ban, he blasted them - telling them never again to put this in front of him (power he did not have). That attitude (which he also displayed on education issues) and his method of attacking the victims of police brutality are what have made me decided not to ever again vote for Giuliani in any capacity - not his views on ferrets. Well, maybe his views on ferrets, too, but if Obama or McCain come out as not liking ferrets, I probably won’t hold it against them as much. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/30 "2007-06-18T22:10:17Z")
He doesn’t have to like ferrets. It’s the fact that he’s an asshole about it. Though, I do find that there is something deeply wrong with a man who has such a strong opinion against ferrets. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/31 "2007-06-18T22:11:07Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] He was great. He reduced taxes. The crime rate decreased dramatically, far more than in most other cities during those years. But there are some things you just can’t do in a city that’s dominated by liberals. [/QUOTE] At that time nearly every city in America was in a crime drop. How do you suppose he made it drop everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/32 "2007-06-18T23:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Despite Guiliani’s zoning laws, strip clubs are alive and well in New York City. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but you have to clean up after yourself when you’re done. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/33 "2007-06-18T23:40:04Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Though, I do find that there is something deeply wrong with a man who has such a strong opinion against ferrets. [/QUOTE] I thought it was common knowledge but I guessed not- A ferret killed his pa. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/34 "2007-06-19T06:30:30Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] At that time nearly every city in America was in a crime drop. How do you suppose he made it drop everywhere. [/QUOTE] Exactly. The crime drop was experienced all over the US, and it was Dinkins who initiated the tactics credited for lowering violent crime in NYC. Either way, Rudy shouldn’t get credit for that. I honestly think having another president who is stubborn and intractable is completely unacceptable. He has done some things I agree with, but I would hate for the leader of the free world to be someone who has permanent blinders on. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/35 "2007-06-19T17:58:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, by all means, choose your next president based on his opinions about ferrets. No, but you might want to consider whether you want a president who makes laws telling you what kind of pet you can own. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/36 "2007-06-19T18:20:17Z")
Yes, that is a very good criterion for choosing a president. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/37 "2007-06-19T18:40:30Z")
Walloon, I can’t tell if you’re being serious or ironic. But if it’s irony and you’re actually saying that Giuliani’s ferret law is a trivial issue, then you should consider what it really is. It’s an example of how Guiliani will use the power of his elected office to enforce his personal opinions on the public. He’s demonstrated that he doesn’t believe in limitations when it comes to government power. He feels that the government (as embodied by him) has the duty to impose what is right. He doesn’t want to hear dissent that an issue is trivial or that some people may disagree over what’s right or that the constitution or the courts or civil rights prohibit something or that the police went too far in enforcing the law. Liberals can worry that in the aftermath of 9-11, President Guiliani might have arrested every Muslim in the country. Conservatives can worry that in the aftermath of the Virginia Tech shootings, President Guiliani might have confiscated every gun in the country. Libertarians can worry - well actually Libertarians are probably already worried about a Guiliani presidency. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/38 "2007-06-19T18:57:22Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] No, but you might want to consider whether you want a president who makes laws telling you what kind of pet you can own. [/QUOTE] Technically, no law was passed. The NYC Board of Health put out a list of banned animals under the guise that, according to previous rules, “dangerous wild animals naturally inclined to do harm” ferrets were already prohibited (never mind that ferrets were domesticated, and while cats and dogs were also banned, exceptions were put in place for domesticated cats and dogs). Mind you, the Board of Health are all mayoral appointees, so it was pretty obvious who was leading the charge. Mayor Giuliani really overstepped his bounds when he told the City Council, who had voted to overturn the ban, not to ever bring the matter before him again, while vetoing the bill. Since when can the Executive Branch tell the Legislative Branch what bills can and cannot be sent for signing into law? While it is a _pet_ issue for me, much larger was the way he handled the whole affair. Because I was motivated on this issue, I paid much closer attention, and saw up close that others’ complaints of his leadership style were valid and not terribly, if at all, overstated. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/39 "2007-06-19T19:04:08Z")
I am someone born in the city but I grew up only visiting it a lot. I loved Rudy. The city was a nightmare to visit before Rudy. Run down, dirty, depressed, dangerous, random shooting, cars being stripped immediately if you broke down on the highways, aggressive bums and “Squeegee Guys”. I was afraid to take my Niece and Nephew to the Yankee games and it was even difficult to get to the Bronx Zoo. Cars double and triple parked. Everything was covered in graffiti and smelled like piss. The subway cars were the worst. During the Rudy years, the city cleaned up great for visitors at least. I know many residents were not as happy, but the Dinkins years and Beam years were nightmarish, the Koch years were at least a little better. Rudy on the other hand was great for the city. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264/40 "2007-06-19T20:39:25Z")
The clean up began before Rudy. He continued the programs. Really, the city had a tough time shaking off the terrible depression of the 70’s. (you know, the Welcome Back Kotter period) The 80’s stockmarket boom set the city on the right path but it was a long slow recovery. Rudy, suggested, that he be allowed to stay mayor for longer than his term so that he could be the one to deal with extended 9/11 issues. He suggested that the city charter be ignored, that the election results be ignored, so that he could keep power. When a controversial art exhibit opened at the Brooklyn Museum of Art, he tried to get it shut down. When freedom of speech prevailed, the MTA suddenly announced major track work at the stations servicing the museum so limited or no subway service. He is pretty much a dick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-metro-nyc-dopers-how-did-you-like-giuliani-pre-9-11/408264.md?page=3)