# For once and for all: What's the Straight Dope on the White Stripes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 7, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092 "2003-04-07T16:25:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/21 "2003-04-09T18:57:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gatopescado \* > \*\*And no, Gex, the Beatles did not “suck” for the most part. Who the hell is “1910 Fruitgum Co.”? \*\* The Beatles didn’t suck in any way, shape or form, ever. They were sucked, by groupies, and Brian Epstein\*. The 1910 Fruitgum Co. is along with The Archies, what was known in the early 1970’s as “bubblegum music.” It was very poppy. VERY poppy and was hated with a vehemence that is quite disturbing to this day by the rock critics back then. It was a creation of studio musicians and people today try and pass off groups like the Backstreet Boys as mere imitators of the bubblegum groups of the early 1970’s which only proves that there are quite a lot of moronic asshats out there whose knowledge of things musical is a very high negative number and they would be best off if they just shut their soupholes. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/22 "2003-04-10T03:07:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Payton’s Servant \* > \*\*…there are quite a lot of moronic asshats out there whose knowledge of things musical is a very high negative number and they would be best off if they just shut their soupholes. \*\* Case in point. Soup anyone? ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/23 "2003-04-10T14:43:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Payton’s Servant_ > The Beatles didn’t suck in any way, shape or form, ever. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by gatopescado_ > And no, Gex, the Beatles did not “suck” for the most part. I’ve already gone on this rant in another thread, so I’ll simply repost what I said there: > [@](#): > > _originally posted by me_ > Let’s take a look, for instance, at their opus, Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band > > Side One > > 1. Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band > > Novelty song > > 1. A Little Help From My Friends > > Obligatory Ringo track, terribly sung, almost universally considered inferior to the subsequent cover version. > > 1. Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds. > > John goes trippy with drugs. I bet it sounded really _out there_ back in the 60s, on acid, _maaaan_. > > 1. Getting Better > > Standard Beatle pop. Nothing special. > > 1. Fixing A Hole > > Novelty Song > > 1. She’s Leaving Home > > At last, a classic. > > 1. Being For The Benefit Of Mr Kite > > Novelty Song > Side Two > > 1. Within You, Without You > > Very interesting piece of experimentation. I rate it. > > 1. When I’m Sixty-Four > > Paul expresses his ghastly love for 40s era popular music. Terrible. This is what current affairs shows play when they want background music for a feel good piece about old people. > > 1. Lovely Rita > > OK pop song, nothing special, but nothing awful like other tracks. > > 1. Good Morning, Good Morning > > I learnt this song in kindergarten, and got over it about the same time I got over Three Blind Mice and One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Once I Caught A Fish Alive. Then again, the Beatles have always done nursery rhymes - Octopus’ Garden… Yellow Submarine… > > 1. Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise) > > Reprise of a novelty song. > > 1. A Day In The Life > > Decent song, worthy of inclusion. > > * * * > > It’s hardly a gem-laden work. Their other albums are similar. Compare that to an OK Computer, a Doolittle, a Velvet Underground and Nico, a My Aim is True or a Murmur. I said it before; the Beatles are overated. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/24 "2003-04-10T15:11:07Z")
Hey, **Gex Gex**! Where do you keep it? ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/25 "2003-04-10T22:43:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > **Their other albums are similar.** Hmmm. Verrry interesting, and unsupported, assertion. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/26 "2003-04-11T01:24:12Z")
Wow, **gex**. I’m positively stunned, given your otherwise perfectly respectable taste in music. 🙂 But how can I argue taste? For my part, I can only take the Velvet Underground in small doses, and could easily chalk up a list as dismissive as your Beatles list. I would almost say that VU is overrated, except for the fact that almost every artist post-VU which I listen to all cite them as key influences. I must be missing something. It’s good music, but just doesn’t knock me over the head, like Doolittle or Murmur or Sgt. Peppers. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/27 "2003-04-11T01:48:38Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Gex Gex_ > John goes trippy with drugs. I bet it sounded really out there back in the 60s, on acid, maaaan. Replace John with Lou and you just described every Velvet Underground song. “If I could be anyone of the things in this world that bite Instead of an ocelot on a leash, I’d rather be a kite And be tied to the end of your string And flying in the air, babe, at night Cause you know what they say about honey bears When you shave off all their baby hair You have a hairy minded pink bare bear” Mmm-hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![pom-pom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5e9695/32.png) [@pom-pom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pom-pom)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/28 "2003-04-11T02:52:54Z")
“I just want to kidnap Jack and Meg and make them dress in purple and green.” Snooooopy, that is too funny. I’d like to see that. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/29 "2003-04-11T04:01:24Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by jacelope_ > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by gex gex_ > > Their other albums are similar. > > Hmmm. Verrry interesting, and unsupported, assertion. Similar in terms of patchiness. It’s unsupported because I have neither the time or the desire to go through each album as I did with Sgt Pepper’s. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by pulykamell_ > Wow, gex. I’m positively stunned, given your otherwise perfectly respectable taste in music. 🙂 But how can I argue taste? For my part, I can only take the Velvet Underground in small doses, and could easily chalk up a list as dismissive as your Beatles list. I would almost say that VU is overrated, except for the fact that almost every artist post-VU which I listen to all cite them as key influences. I must be missing something. It’s good music, but just doesn’t knock me over the head, like Doolittle or Murmur or Sgt. Peppers. Oh well. I guess we’ll just have to chalk it up to difference in taste then. 🙂 > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Dooku_ > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally posted by Gex Gex\* > > John goes trippy with drugs. I bet it sounded really out there back in the 60s, on acid, maaaan. > > Replace John with Lou and you just described every Velvet Underground song. > > “If I could be anyone of the things in this world that bite > Instead of an ocelot on a leash, I’d rather be a kite > And be tied to the end of your string > And flying in the air, babe, at night > Cause you know what they say about honey bears > When you shave off all their baby hair > You have a hairy minded pink bare bear” > > Mmm-hmmm. Wow! Now do you see why I say that VU were better than the Beatles? That is _deep_ 🙂 I think the main difference between John and Lou Reed’s drug-fuckedness is that John chose to channel the non-sensical ramblings of LSD, while Lou (for the most part - above example notwithstanding) involved himself with the more brutal, crushing realities of heroin addiction. It was a good decision musically, though certainly health-wise. After all, it is a scientific fact that heroin produces better art than LSD. ---
**Author:** ![Caprese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@Caprese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caprese)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/30 "2003-04-11T12:05:11Z")
I read somewhere (was it Straight Dope?) that the White Stripes um, _sampled_ from an old musical without giving the original composer any credit. Does anyone else have any idea of what I am talking about? Jack White seems like a nice guy, why does he have to resort to the brother-sister schtick? I have only heard a few of their songs, but recall that one that I heard had some humming that strikingly reminded me of an old Rolling Stones cover of the song Fortune Teller. I do _not_ dislike the White Stripes, it’s just that whenever I have listened to them, I sort of feel as though I have heard it all before. I have a very old magazine cover from Punch, an image in which the Beatles are depicted as saints in a stained glass window. It’s supposed to be funny, and it is. The Four Moptops never were deities; they were a really good band which took us on a ride that ultimately involved more than music. Same with the Stones. Would I rather listen to White Light/White Heat, or White Blood Cells, or the White album? Do I have to pick? Does anyone? One thing I do know is that, no matter what the gimmick (moptop hair, red and white, heroin etc) Jack White, Lou Reed and John Lennon (who did his own share of smack) are not interchangeable. Not going to argue about whether other Beatles albums are similar to Sgt Pepper’s. ‘She’s So Fine/My Sweet Lord’ aside, I think it’s safe to say that the Beatles created a hell of a lot of original music, from She Loves You to Norwegian Wood to Revolution to Something. Time will tell with the White Stripes. ---
**Author:** ![Delta-9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3be4f8/32.png) [@Delta-9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delta-9)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/31 "2003-04-11T13:20:51Z")
I guess I just don’t get it. All The White Stripes songs sound like unfinished demos to me. Color me unimpressed. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/32 "2003-04-11T13:30:09Z")
Well, **Delta-9** , that certainly is part of the charm…at least for me. It’s back-to-basics, balls-to-the-wall recording. I personally have very little patience for the ultra-glitzy recording techniques that have been sucking the soul out of most of today’s music, and it’s nice to see that others have also grown tired of it, too. I’m not saying that all highly-produced records are soulless, but a lot of them do seem to suffer from a lack of energy and spontaneity that lo-fi recording affords. And lo-fi done the way bands like the White Stripes do it, is listenable and professional, while still allowing the music to breathe and maintain spontaneity. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/33 "2003-04-11T14:15:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Delta-9 \* > **I guess I just don’t get it. All The White Stripes songs sound like unfinished demos to me.** Then you get it. Also, please everyone take note of the fact that the people hailing the White Stripes and their ilk as the saviors of rock ‘n’ roll do not include the members of the White Stripes. ---
**Author:** ![Delta-9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3be4f8/32.png) [@Delta-9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delta-9)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/34 "2003-04-11T14:24:49Z")
I understand the “old-school” recording approach. I’m an old guy. That part I get. It just sounds so. . . _unfunished._ From this humble recordist’s point of view anyway. Cripes, they should’ve at least overdubbed a bass guitar. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/35 "2003-04-11T14:47:04Z")
Hey, the John Spencer Blues Explosion, indie-darlings Sleater-Kinney and, heck, the Doors all survived without a bass, so can the Stripes! 🙂 Actually, a bass would be kind of nice, and in fact, some dude from Redd Kross (whom I believe is somehow related to Jack) dubbed some bass on some White Stripes songs and called the project The Redd Stripes. ---
**Author:** ![chorizo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@chorizo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorizo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/36 "2003-04-11T15:07:21Z")
\*\*No Bass - \*\* I like the “unfinished” feeling of it. It’s more honest in that they band can actually play the songs live the way they sound on record, for the most part at least - some of the stuff on Elephant might be harder, since there is some lead guitar stuff, and a baritone/octave guitar on Seven Nation Army. I’ve always hated bands that record as a three or four piece and then require some random extra sideman, who is never considered to be part of the band, in order to play live. For some reason that just seems cheesy to me. Just play your solos, don’t worry about the rhythm guitar. Not that I am opposed to studio trickery, as I think it can be really cool - just don’t feel the need to recreate it live. I saw Wilco last summer, and they played a straight-up rock show as a four piece, despite Yankee Hotel Foxtrot being full of little bits of studio effects and stuff. They just stripped stuff down and played it raw live without hiring a bunch of extra dudes to fill in the gaps. **Saving Rock -** I don’t seen anyone in this thread who claimed that the White Stripes were going to “save” rock and roll. No band wants to get saddled with that kind of baggage, and any who do are probably arrogant assholes who wouldn’t be capable of it anyway. It’s just something a little different, which means “sounds like something from fifteen years ago”. They’ll do their thing, spawn imitators, have a backlash, then fade away to be replaced by the next wave of crappy studio-pop Backstreet Boys / New Kids / etc. Then people will get sick of that again and someone else will come along to “save” rock. **Beatles/Velvets -** I like 'em both. Like the Velvet Underground a little more, as I like the rawness/sadness/prettiness of a lot of their songs a lot. I also think that the Beatles are both terribly overrated and underrated, depending on who you talk to and what the circumstances are, as well as my mood at the moment. **The White Stripes In General -** I think it’s kind of funny how Jack White refuses to say they were married or deny that they’re brother and sister. I read one interview where they showed him the divorce license, and he claimed it was a forgery. I thought that was funny - keep fucking with the media despite overwhelming evidence. Kind of like the Iraqi Information Minister - “There are no American Infidels in Baghdad”. I think they’re both shapeshifters, like the the episode of Seinfeld where Jerry’s girlfriend was hot in some lighting and ugly in other places. Sometimes I think they’re both attractive, sometimes I think they’re both really not attractive. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/37 "2003-04-11T15:23:12Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Caprese_ > I read somewhere (was it Straight Dope?) that the White Stripes um, _sampled_ from an old musical without giving the original composer any credit. Does anyone else have any idea of what I am talking about? They resung a chunk of the song from _Citizen Kane_ in “The Union Forever” (the "there is a man/ a certain man/ and for the poor, you may be sure he’ll do all he can…) It’s a perfectly legitimate use, and the complaints about it illustrate why copyright law needs to return to the concept of fair use. The song is a work with its own artistic merit, and the Citizen Kane lyric adds a level of meaning to the work. It’s just like Tom Stoppard using characters from Hamlet in _Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead_, Andy Warhol using the design of a soup can or a coke bottle in his artwork or The Simpsons using _The Shining_ as the basis for an episode or _Be Our Guest_ from Beauty and the Beast as the basis of a song. > [@](#): > > Jack White seems like a nice guy, why does he have to resort to the brother-sister schtick? I’d say because when they first started to do it, they were playing to tiny bars and nobody had ever heard of them. It wasn’t a “schtick” - it was just a fun joke that they perpetuated. Then suddenly it was this huge thing because they became famous overnight and were written up all over the place. Bands are famous for bullshitting to journalists. They’re just having a bit of fun. I don’t see what the big deal is. > [@](#): > > Not going to argue about whether other Beatles albums are similar to Sgt Pepper’s. I explained this. I meant other Beatles albums are similarly patchy in terms of quality. Nothing to do with their songs sounding alike. Each album, like Sgt Pepper’s is of an inconsistent quality. I never suggested that other albums sound like Sgt Pepper’s or other songs sound like songs on Sgt Pepper’s. Sheesh. You’d think you’d only have to clarify a statement once per thread. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by pulykamell_ > Actually, a bass would be kind of nice, and in fact, some dude from Redd Kross (whom I believe is somehow related to Jack) dubbed some bass on some White Stripes songs and called the project The Redd Stripes. I’ve heard a couple of tracks. I don’t really think the bass adds much for the most part. White Stripes songs work well enough without it. It’s part of their charm. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/38 "2003-04-11T15:35:41Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by gatopescade_ > Hey, Gex Gex! Where do you keep it? 😕 Where… do… I… keep… it? I’m sorry. I’m having this unnerving feeling that things are flying over my head with a _whooshing_ noise. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/39 "2003-04-11T19:12:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > **They resung a chunk of the song from _Citizen Kane_ in “The Union Forever” (the "there is a man/ a certain man/ and for the poor, you may be sure he’ll do all he can…)** Slight clarification: All of the lyrics to “The Union Forever” are lines from _Kane_. The title is what the kids are shouting near the beginning as they pelt each other with snowballs; this was 1871 (or so) and it was a Civil War battle cry. The lyrics begin, “Sure I’m C.F.K., but you gotta love me…” which Kane’s second wife, the failed singer, says to the interviewer in imitation of Kane toward the end. The refrain “It can’t be love/For there is no true love…” is the song the band is singing at the big cookout in the wilderness. And so on. I just watched _Kane_ again recently (can you tell?) and, while I love the White Stripes, I have to admit I was a little ticked by the way my familiarity with that song made certain lines of dialogue jump out of context. ---
**Author:** ![chorizo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@chorizo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorizo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092/40 "2003-04-11T21:45:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jackelope \* > \*\*I just watched _Kane_ again recently (can you tell?) and, while I love the White Stripes, I have to admit I was a little ticked by the way my familiarity with that song made certain lines of dialogue jump out of context. \*\* I did the same thing, but I enjoyed it. I remembered the song from the Simpsons episode that was basically one bit ripoff of Citizen Kane - the one with Mr. Burns looking for Bobo, his teddy bear (the episode is actually titled “Rosebud”). Smithers sings the “It’s Mr. Burns!” song at the party, and I remembered that one over the original as I hadn’t seen Kane in ten years or so. I didn’t realize that **every** line in the song was from Citizen Kane, and as I watched it it was really funny when I noticed them. Jack White’s little imprint record label/song publishing deal is named “Third Man”, I’m assuming he’s a big Orson Wells fan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-once-and-for-all-whats-the-straight-dope-on-the-white-stripes/167092.md?page=3)